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Thread: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

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    Member J H S's Avatar
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    Default Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    .
    .
    This issue is solvable. Look to elegance.

    If a buyer wishes to purchase a pen from a forum member, or if forum member lists in classifieds to sell;

    Consider closing by listing on .bay at high price with make an offer option.

    >the offer is accepted from the known buyer immediately, with .bay and paypal protections for both parties.

    Comments?

    J H S

    ~ . ~



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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by J H S View Post
    .
    .
    This issue is solvable. Look to elegance.

    If a buyer wishes to purchase a pen from a forum member, or if forum member lists in classifieds to sell;

    Consider closing by listing on .bay at high price with make an offer option.

    >the offer is accepted from the known buyer immediately, with .bay and paypal protections for both parties.

    Comments?

    J H S
    Or just use paypal and save yourself (as the seller) the 10% eBay fee.

    As I mentioned in your other thread, I've made more than 1000 online transactions (and probably closer to 2-3k) with other private buyers/sellers and have never had a single issue when following Paypal's guidelines.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Yeah, why bother? Just use Paypal which has the same buyer protection *without* the extra overhead that frankly I, as a seller, have zero interest in paying. Nope, not gonna do it. Paypal is plenty of protection.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Member J H S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    I understand what you are saying, and I agree; when considering seasoned traders, or long time forum members who have confidence in one another.

    My inspiration is to open up a solution to the more casual enthusiast or newbie, or the opportunistic drop-in wanting a certain pen, as a gift perhaps, who may not have the chops to go beyond pressing 'buy', like they are accustomed to doing. I help folks with computers in my small town. Many are enthused to learn of the right click menu, for example.

    With your point well taken, do you see any reason why 'make offer' would not be a reliable alternative for those who might choose it?

    thank you for your view.

    Jim

    ~ . ~



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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by J H S View Post
    I understand what you are saying, and I agree; when considering seasoned traders, or long time forum members who have confidence in one another.

    My inspiration is to open up a solution to the more casual enthusiast or newbie, or the opportunistic drop-in wanting a certain pen, as a gift perhaps, who may not have the chops to go beyond pressing 'buy', like they are accustomed to doing. I help folks with computers in my small town. Many are enthused to learn of the right click menu, for example.

    With your point well taken, do you see any reason why 'make offer' would not be a reliable alternative for those who might choose it?

    thank you for your view.

    Jim
    JHS the issue is that eBay takes a cut of the sale. I do not sell on eBay because I don't want to pay their fees. Period. It isn't worth it to me. If someone isn't comfortable sending an email to me and getting a Paypal invoice they can buy from eBay. They'll pay more (most likely) because of all the fees piled on top.

    The sale forum here is an *alternative* to selling on eBay, seems like you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist...
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by J H S View Post
    .
    .
    This issue is solvable. Look to elegance.

    If a buyer wishes to purchase a pen from a forum member, or if forum member lists in classifieds to sell;

    Consider closing by listing on .bay at high price with make an offer option.

    >the offer is accepted from the known buyer immediately, with .bay and paypal protections for both parties.

    Comments?

    J H S
    You don't need to have ebay buyer protection when an item is not an ebay purchase. You have perfectly adequate protection from PayPal for items not received (buyers) or items claimed as not received (sellers)
    Last edited by Chrissy; December 28th, 2019 at 02:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Thanks Chrissy,

    I was a bit unclear on that. Think I may have to wade through the Paypal fine print.

    .
    I have had it happen where I was tying to buy a listed item, on a forum, and the seller was shy even of paypal. I think he had an experience where the buyer filed for a refund after delivery, and the time spent with that foolery was time off the market for his pen.
    After the the experience, the seller began to rely upon confidence based on forum posts and time aboard. I understand this view as well, ultimately it is an individuals decision that should be respected.

    ~ . ~



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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by J H S View Post
    Thanks Chrissy,

    I was a bit unclear on that. Think I may have to wade through the Paypal fine print.

    .
    I have had it happen where I was tying to buy a listed item, on a forum, and the seller was shy even of paypal. I think he had an experience where the buyer filed for a refund after delivery, and the time spent with that foolery was time off the market for his pen.
    After the the experience, the seller began to rely upon confidence based on forum posts and time aboard. I understand this view as well, ultimately it is an individuals decision that should be respected.
    It's unfortunate that person had a bad experience, but (once again) a basic understanding of how Paypal works would have easily prevented the bad experience.

    To safely transact business online you need two things: a basic understanding of how to use a computer, and a minimal level of common sense. To put it into perspective, I started conducting business online when I was 13 years old (14 years ago now).

    Had the seller taken the proper precautions (tracking, shipping insurance, and possibly signature confirmation) they would have been 100% protected by Paypal's terms and conditions as well as the shipping carrier's.

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    I like the signature approach on a large item, and I think tandaina had it right that one or both parties will have a reputation on the line.

    Common sense on the other hand, can be rather hit or miss... : )

    ~ . ~



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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Is it possible to use Paypal for trades? Or can someone suggest how a trade can be handled?

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by penultress View Post
    Is it possible to use Paypal for trades? Or can someone suggest how a trade can be handled?
    Yup. Basically you pay each other with Paypal. Say we each have a pen worth about $100 we want to trade. You PAY ME (paying for goods and services, not gift option) $100. I do the same. We send the items. We're both out a small Paypal fee but otherwise the monetary outcome is nil. And we both have protection. So if you never send the pen I paid for I just file a paypal dispute and get my money back instead of being out a pen. (Since you paid for the pen I sent I still have that cash.) This is the safest way to trade.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penultress View Post
    Is it possible to use Paypal for trades? Or can someone suggest how a trade can be handled?
    Yup. Basically you pay each other with Paypal. Say we each have a pen worth about $100 we want to trade. You PAY ME (paying for goods and services, not gift option) $100. I do the same. We send the items. We're both out a small Paypal fee but otherwise the monetary outcome is nil. And we both have protection. So if you never send the pen I paid for I just file a paypal dispute and get my money back instead of being out a pen. (Since you paid for the pen I sent I still have that cash.) This is the safest way to trade.
    Thanks! What if the pens are much higher in value? Does this mean we would pay each other the value agreed upon?

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penultress View Post
    Is it possible to use Paypal for trades? Or can someone suggest how a trade can be handled?
    Yup. Basically you pay each other with Paypal. Say we each have a pen worth about $100 we want to trade. You PAY ME (paying for goods and services, not gift option) $100. I do the same. We send the items. We're both out a small Paypal fee but otherwise the monetary outcome is nil. And we both have protection. So if you never send the pen I paid for I just file a paypal dispute and get my money back instead of being out a pen. (Since you paid for the pen I sent I still have that cash.) This is the safest way to trade.
    The only hitch I've come up with in the paypal scenario is that what if you trade a person and that person never sends the item, you send your item, you file a paypal dispute saying you never received it. Since the person is dishonest about trading in the first place what prevents them from saying they never received the pen and filing a dispute as well.

    Would the USPS tracking be sufficient to deny that claim since it will show delivered or not? I agree that other than this scenario Paypal does seem the best route to go.
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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Sailor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penultress View Post
    Is it possible to use Paypal for trades? Or can someone suggest how a trade can be handled?
    Yup. Basically you pay each other with Paypal. Say we each have a pen worth about $100 we want to trade. You PAY ME (paying for goods and services, not gift option) $100. I do the same. We send the items. We're both out a small Paypal fee but otherwise the monetary outcome is nil. And we both have protection. So if you never send the pen I paid for I just file a paypal dispute and get my money back instead of being out a pen. (Since you paid for the pen I sent I still have that cash.) This is the safest way to trade.
    The only hitch I've come up with in the paypal scenario is that what if you trade a person and that person never sends the item, you send your item, you file a paypal dispute saying you never received it. Since the person is dishonest about trading in the first place what prevents them from saying they never received the pen and filing a dispute as well.

    Would the USPS tracking be sufficient to deny that claim since it will show delivered or not? I agree that other than this scenario Paypal does seem the best route to go.
    Only ever send things with tracking and delivery verification when using Paypal. When I send something via paypal I immediately enter the tracking number INTO paypal and let Paypal send it to the buyer (you can also print your shipping label via Paypal but sometimes that isn't convenient). I never, ever ship without some tracking that gives proof of delivery. That prevents the "i never got it" and I insure for full value. So if they really do never get it I can file a claim with USPS and we all get our money back.

    And yes, if you were trading a very high value pen with someone you don't know i suggest you both pay one another an agreed amount that is equal to reasonable sale value. DO NOT set someone "buy" a Nakaya for $100 because they're going to send you a "Fill in the blank here" unless you know them and trust them. A random person? Sorry your credit card is going to take a hit, BUT so long as they also make hte appropriate payment that's fine and dandy.

    Example:
    I have Nakaya worth $1,000.
    You have Visconti worth $300.

    We want to trade plus cash.

    I PAY YOU $300 for the Visconti.
    You PAY ME $1000 for the Nakaya.

    We both send pens. In the end the $300 cancels out and we've basically traded a Visconti plus $700 for a Nakaya, as agreed. But because we did it that way through Paypal we're both fully covered should one of us flake out, be a crook, or just plain something gets ruined or lost in shipping. (Obviously insure your package!)
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Only ever send things with tracking and delivery verification when using Paypal. When I send something via paypal I immediately enter the tracking number INTO paypal and let Paypal send it to the buyer (you can also print your shipping label via Paypal but sometimes that isn't convenient). I never, ever ship without some tracking that gives proof of delivery. That prevents the "i never got it" and I insure for full value. So if they really do never get it I can file a claim with USPS and we all get our money back.
    Precisely.

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    Default Re: Purchase / Sales protection using 'Make Offer' comments wanted

    Though I'm not in the habit of reviving older threads, this one possibly needs to come out of the woodwork. Even if only as a reminder to buyers and sellers that they only have any PayPal protection if they pay or accept Goods & Services payments.

    There are several other threads on here that should serve as a warning about can happen when sales or purchases go wrong.

    Friends or Family transfers are gifts pure and simple, and should never be used for purchases. Buyers and sellers, by all means let's be friendly about it, but make sure you are always protected.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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