Removing Nib/feed - How Many Times Is Too Many Times?

[EMQG]

Bakelite should be able to stand a soaking if it isn't cracked?

Bakelite?

It's a kind of plastic. The Sheaffer Snorkels are made of it, for example.

[Deb]

I know what it is. I'm questioning its use in any of the pens under discussion - or the Snorkel, for that matter.

[catbert]

According to Richard Binder's glossopedia, 'Bakelite' could also refer to: "Any of several thermoplastics produced by Union Carbide after its 1939 acquisition of the Bakelite Corporation (e.g., Bakelite C-11, a styrene-acrylonitrile (SAN) copolymer used for Sheaffer’s Snorkel)." i.e. not what most of us think of as Bakelite.

[Deb]

That's quite a stretch, to call just about anything produced by Union Carbide Bakelite.

Allowing for that, the original context was, "The pens I'm talking about are mostly modern Chinese friction fit pens, but also some "plastic age" pens. With something like an Estie I would unscrew & soak only the nib unit. Bakelite should be able to stand a soaking if it isn't cracked?" I don't think that there's bakelite, of any variety, in any of those pens.

[catbert]

That's quite a stretch, to call just about anything produced by Union Carbide Bakelite.

Agreed.

[JFB]

Bakelite should be able to stand a soaking if it isn't cracked?

Bakelite?

One of the first plastics it's chemical name is olyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride. Very neat stuff, they made just about everything from radios to jewelry out of it.

Pax,
John

[Deb]

Bakelite should be able to stand a soaking if it isn't cracked?

Bakelite?

One of the first plastics it's chemical name is olyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride. Very neat stuff, they made just about everything from radios to jewelry out of it.

Pax,
John

Quite so, but very few pens. Some clear-barrelled Parkers, not many of which survive because Bakelite is brittle. There were one two others but again the survival rate is poor. Of course, if you look in eBay, you will be informed that every other pen is Bakelite, when it's usually black hard rubber.

[KrazyIvan]

I guess it is too much when you end up breaking a pen. I've removed them for cleaning before but stopped when I snapped an ebonite feed in two, of a brand new to me pen.

[JFB]

Quite so, but very few pens. Some clear-barrelled Parkers, not many of which survive because Bakelite is brittle. There were one two others but again the survival rate is poor. Of course, if you look in eBay, you will be informed that every other pen is Bakelite, when it's usually black hard rubber.

Deb,

I'm probably wrong, but I thought I had read a post here or the other place stating the some sections were Bakelite?

Pax,
John

[Deb]

I won't be dogmatic about it, but most older sections are hard rubber. I'm not aware of any celluloid or hard rubber pen with a Bakelite section. There's a lot of outward pressure in a section from the wedged-in nib and feed. I think that Bakelite's fragility would make it unsuitable. The one or two pens that were made out of Bakelite probably had hard rubber sections for that reason.

[Deb]

Just as a matter of interest because we were discussing them, I finally remembered the Bakelite pen: the Ingersoll - or rather one of several Ingersolls. They were celluloid pens until the late twenties when they changed to Bakelite, for reasons unknown. They were also twist fillers, operated by an upholstery tack, if I remember well. Cheap but attractive. There's still a few around but getting less every day. So fragile that they crack if a bird cheeps outside the window.

[urushi4u]

Re the original question: Once you've caused 'wear', then you've gone too far.

[catbert]

Just as a matter of interest because we were discussing them, I finally remembered the Bakelite pen: the Ingersoll - or rather one of several Ingersolls. They were celluloid pens until the late twenties when they changed to Bakelite, for reasons unknown. They were also twist fillers, operated by an upholstery tack, if I remember well. Cheap but attractive. There's still a few around but getting less every day. So fragile that they crack if a bird cheeps outside the window.

I believe early Pelikan Graphos pens are also Bakelite (the real kind, not some Union Carbide product).

[Farmboy]

Bakelite should be able to stand a soaking if it isn't cracked?

Bakelite?

It's a kind of plastic. The Sheaffer Snorkels are made of it, for example.

The last issue of the Pennant had an article on identifying materials used to make pens.

Well worth reading. If anything sank in...Snorkels are not Bakelite

[Seattleite]

How clean is clean enough? Most of the old pens that I come across have probably never experienced a changing of ink color beyond blue to blue-black and possibly back, during their working life. I am sure that most that i rehab have never had their nibs removed. (Check for flow - good to go). A good flush (for my needs) doesn't mean that no residue remains.

It seems that a lot of folks want to go from some super-saturate to a subtle shading with minimal cross contamination. This was not a consumer need back when the friction fit "section - nib - feed" assembly was developed. Perhaps there is a niche that some new pen maker can fill.

My solution is to have more pens than inks.

Bob

[Seattleite]

I won't be dogmatic about it, but most older sections are hard rubber. I'm not aware of any celluloid or hard rubber pen with a Bakelite section. There's a lot of outward pressure in a section from the wedged-in nib and feed. I think that Bakelite's fragility would make it unsuitable. The one or two pens that were made out of Bakelite probably had hard rubber sections for that reason.

The Bakelite Ingersoll that you mention can have a Bakelite section (at least the 2 that I have do). Bear in mind that these pens are a molded composite, with Bakelite as the binder. It was not uncommon to have wood flour or asbestos as fiber that would enhance tensile and flexural strength. This was common in moldable composites during this time period. The ingersoll material is probably a bit tougher than, say, the barrel of a Dunn Tattler but, certainly falls short of the strength profile required.

As an aside, I have wondered, but never investigated, whether the Bakelite Presto pens were made by Prestolite (maker of Bakelite electrical components).

Bob

[Deb]

Thanks for that, Bob. Very interesting.