"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
Empty_of_Clouds (August 10th, 2015)
Empty_of_Clouds (August 10th, 2015)
Indeed. The 'saying goodbye' part was referring to fare-welling the pens in the sale, nothing more. As in "It's time to say goodbye to these pens".
Anyhoo, I still think the writing sample does not give a clear idea of nib fineness. The Platinum EF sample is about the same as my Eversharp Skyline. And that's a Western pen. I noted the #12 pad, took that into consideration at the time. Your Aurora puts down the same line as my vintage one - and it's a fine. Besides which, a sample of one has no significance. Laura's experience extends far beyond that population number.
As stated, too many variables.
Eversharp Skyline is also a vintage pen from the 1940s (assuming you're talking about one like the one you had for sale). Their sizing tend to vary, as such vintage EF tends to be closer to Japanese EF I've found. My Parker 75 with a '63' 14K EF is nearly identical to the Platinum EF. But a Goulet/Jowo/Monteverde/Franklin-Christoph/Waterman/Pelikan/Lamy/Sheaffer/Parker... modern EF is about a size larger.
Pulled out my Environotes Sugarcane Notebook, since I Recall the very first page I have several lines filled in (ie: whenever I inked a pen over the last year, I'd write in a line so I can refer back to how it wrote), on that page, there are three inked with Tsuki-yo , A Visconti Divina Desert Springs LE with an 18K EF Nib, and a Pelikan M400 with a 14K M, and the Pelikan M640 with the 18K M. I wrote with the Aurora at top, as well as writing the word 'Aurora' next to each line of the other pens with Tsuki-yo inked. That narrows it down to only the nib being the factor difference.
Link to the full 300DPI scan : http://i.imgur.com/8SBlSLJ.jpg
I think you are kind of making my point for me, if you'll pardon the pun.
Let's take your Aurora with the "M" nib. On the basis of that single example you have stated a belief that modern Aurora nibs run far finer than they aver. Laura has said they run finer but not by that much, and we know she has a collection of very beautiful Auroras. I mean no disrespect by this, but I think it is more likely, statistically speaking, that Laura is correct. Unfortunately I don't have a modern Western pen with a non-edged nib, so I couldn't directly compare and had to look at the couple of vintage things I do have.
Just made me realise. I don't have any modern pens beyond a Parson's Essential. And that one has a CI nib. Oh well, when all the vintage stuff is gone perhaps I shall splash out on something modern and expensive, like a Pilot 92 or something.
And this on Rhodia with 4 other pens inked with Tsuki-yo (M400 with 14K M, M640 with 18K M, Bexley Fine, Platinum 14K FM).
300DPI : http://i.imgur.com/Er5vsOT.jpg
If that's on par with their normal Medium, I'd have to wonder about their EF which would be finer than even the Japanese EF.
Nobody is saying that YOUR Aurora is not running EF despite being labelled "M". What I am saying is that this single example does not automatically imply that ALL Aurora "M" nibs are like this - a point that Laura's contribution confirms - or that other sizes of Aurora nibs will follow the same pattern, which you are also assuming based on really nothing at all.
Occam's Razor: your Aurora is not the norm.
I have several Auroras--four Optimas and one Talentum--and my experience has been the same as Laura's. The nibs tend to run finer but not that much finer. I have F, M, B, stub, and italic nibs from Aurora, and I would say that my nibs are "true-to-size." For example, my Aurora fine nib is not quite as fine as my Japanese fines but it's also not as wide and wet as my Pelikan fines. My Aurora broad nib is about as broad as my Pelikan B nibs, but it was set up to have extra juicy flow. While I would say that Aurora nibs tend to run slightly finer than most other Western nibs, they are not comparable to Japanese nibs. A Sailor or Pilot or Platinum XF nib will be much finer than a typical Aurora XF.
There is bound to be some variation with Aurora nibs because they are hand-ground. It looks like your particular nib writes on the dry side as well, which is going to make the line seem even narrower. Perhaps your nib slipped through. Perhaps it's mislabeled. You bought it used, yes? Perhaps someone else set it up to write drier and finer. Who knows. To me, the only question is this: Do you like the way it writes? If so, great. Write with it and enjoy it. If not, have the flow and smoothness adjusted to your tastes.
Empty_of_Clouds (August 10th, 2015)
PS: I was never saying that all Aurora M's were the same but seeking confirmation of if it was just me, or if it's common. Your initial reply came off as , it's not EF because I don't seem to have the capability of noticing sizes and not using all the same factors.
The problem I'm having is trying to figure out their exact sizing, because I been offered a nib swap, the only problem is I haven't even gotten back a response from Kenro in regards to what their sizes actually run. I don't want to swap to a 'B' with the expectation that it's just a size up from the "M" I have and then end up with something that actually feels like a 'B' by western sizing when I just want something either 'F' or 'M' in western sizing. Also it's not that dry, as it actually shades on the heavier side with Tsuki-yo, it was drier before but made it not so much before, the write samples are current.
Last edited by KBeezie; August 9th, 2015 at 05:53 PM.
And both Laura and Reprieve have answered your query to a more than satisfactory degree.PS: I was never saying that all Aurora M's were the same but seeking confirmation of if it was just me, or if it's common. Your initial reply came off as , it's not EF because I don't seem to have the capability of noticing sizes and not using all the same factors.
Oh, and my apologies if you misunderstood what I had written.
Hi there I'm new to this saw your post and had to reply. I have the exact same 365 F number 253 out of 365 and love. Cheers
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