Page 25 of 26 FirstFirst ... 1523242526 LastLast
Results 481 to 500 of 518

Thread: The US 2nd Amendment.....

  1. #481
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    555
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 338 Times in 194 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    You’re right. Liberals can’t debate ideas.
    I consume both left and right wing media. I mean in the American sense of left and right wing, not European, where democrats are considered the far right. I would generally agree with you, the right does seem to have more logically consistent arguments, whereas the left seems to appeal a lot more to emotions. Since I have the capability of emotional range of a toaster, I frequently find it hard to understand the lefts' point of view, but I guess a healthy amount of both is needed for a functional country.

  2. #482
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    You’re right. Liberals can’t debate ideas.
    I consume both left and right wing media. I mean in the American sense of left and right wing, not European, where democrats are considered the far right. I would generally agree with you, the right does seem to have more logically consistent arguments, whereas the left seems to appeal a lot more to emotions. Since I have the capability of emotional range of a toaster, I frequently find it hard to understand the lefts' point of view, but I guess a healthy amount of both is needed for a functional country.
    Well, I was just making a joke by playing off your post; but I agree with you.

    That being said, the right also makes arguments from emotion (if not as often as the left).

  3. #483
    Useless mhosea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,580
    Thanks
    440
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 786 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    I still think Haidt's book is excellent.

    Political arguments are constructed based on an instinctive conclusion. That's why when you shoot a faulty argument down, you don't typically win over the person making that argument. They just figure they need to construct a better argument. I don't argue with people in forums about 2A issues because I expect to convince them. What I generally hope to do is to undermine the premise that gun owners are dangerous knuckle-draggers who are stubbornly resistant to facts and logic, and if anti-gunners have been misled by their favored sources, I hope to reveal that to them. They may change their own minds later, but if they do, it will be their idea, I think.

    I'll be the first to admit that my position on the 2A is based on the principle that the right of armed self-defense is a natural right. Consequently, even if you were to prove, as you might, that owning firearms is "not good for people" on average, I would not change my mind about the inalienability of this natural right. Natural rights are not defined in terms of benefit or harm. There are many things that I have a right to do that I nevertheless do not do because I think they would not be good for me. I have no objection to being convinced about how to exercise my own discretion more intelligently, but this cannot affect what is and what is not a natural right. Compensating for our natural limitations with tools in order to survive is built in to what it means to be human. An 80 year-old, 90 pound woman has the inalienable right to defend herself against 25 year-old, 250 pound thugs if she can, and she's not going to be able to do that by mastering Taekwondo.
    Last edited by mhosea; June 15th, 2018 at 03:09 PM.
    --
    Mike

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mhosea For This Useful Post:

    azkid (June 26th, 2018), dneal (June 22nd, 2018), MKeith (June 16th, 2018)

  5. #484
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    ....

    A question comes to mind: do the people of the US want a gun-free and peaceful country?
    This one "people" does.

    I don't remember seeing this thread before. EoC, I commend your noble and wise position in this thread. You see this historical cultural conundrum clearly.

    I would only add this: I look forward--in fantasy, yes--to the day when a massive class-action suit (ala Sandy Hook) wins against the profiteering gun manufacturers and drives them into bankruptcy. I dream of "death" and "debilitation" surcharges placed on the purchase of all guns. I have a dream in which the purveyors of the easiest means of targeted intentional death and destruction in American society are held accountable for the predictable and persistant patterns of destruction that their products cause. I dream of every gun owner crying themselves to sleep at night to get over their loss of their delusional tool of safety. I have a dream.

  6. #485
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,788
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 897 Times in 689 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    I have a different opinion. I grew up with shot guns and pistols. I do not have a gun carry permit because it doesn't make sense to me. One of the tenets of carry permits is, if you draw your gun, intend to pull the trigger. Unless I find myself in a Trump America where I am defending the country, I'll not be shooting to kill. I am happy the US is allowed to own guns. Other countries have to worry about being stabbed.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    dneal (February 27th, 2022)

  8. #486
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Holy necrothread Batman.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  9. #487
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    "This one "people" does.

    I don't remember seeing this thread before. EoC, I commend your noble and wise position in this thread. You see this historical cultural conundrum clearly.

    I would only add this: I look forward--in fantasy, yes--to the day when a massive class-action suit (ala Sandy Hook) wins against the profiteering gun manufacturers and drives them into bankruptcy. I dream of "death" and "debilitation" surcharges placed on the purchase of all guns. I have a dream in which the purveyors of the easiest means of targeted intentional death and destruction in American society are held accountable for the predictable and persistant patterns of destruction that their products cause. I dream of every gun owner crying themselves to sleep at night to get over their loss of their delusional tool of safety. I have a dream. "



    HAHAHAHAHA that is one of the dumbest things I have heard this week. Just look at Ukraine, and how they are arming their people to stop the Russians. People who are delusional about what a gun is never used a tool in their life. A gun is a tool its just that simple, I have many tools some are very dangerous. I have everything from pneumatic nail guns that can put a 15 penny nail into your skull to knives that are almost as sharp as scalpels. I have guns that can also do damage but even though some are loaded they have never killed a human. Funny that. The law or commerce act for the gun industry does not protect a manufacture of firearms against being sued for a faulty product. That is if Remington made a firearm that went off when applying the safety they can and will be sued. But to sue a gun manufacture for a gun doing exactly what it supposed to do but someone or idiot used it for a bad purpose well that is what the law was for. So that idiot liberals can not try to bankrupt a whole industry with frivolous law suits.

    You don't sue GM for a drunk driver driving a car into a group of people, you don't sue Buck Knives if someone used one of their knives to cut someones throat, you go after the individual for their criminal acts. But liberals do not do this, they let out the criminals or don't charge them and then go after the guns or tool. How stupid is that? Liberals in general are not very smart, I.E. AOC, Waters, Polosi ect a bunch of dim whits with big mouths and low IQs. We have a president who can not find his way to the bathroom without help as Russian and China collude to expand their power. They see how weak Brandon is. Its amazing how a government will turn to its people to fight off a external threat. We were told by the idiot liberals that we could not fight the US Gov. if it got tyrannical. Well look at people fighting untrained stopping the Russian invasion. Will they win, I doubt it but many think its better to die on your feet than living on your knees.

    they one has to ask why is it that black communities are killing each other at amazing rates? liberal idiots will say its because all these guns coming in from outside, well I am sure that they do come in to the anti gun states but why is all the insanity not happening in the states where the guns are easy to get? just why is that do you think? Could it be that black culture is rotten? Could it be that the liberal idiots putting blacks on the never ending tit of the US government hand out is helping to cause this? All the Black hatred of whites women and others is fostered as good by the liberal idiots. Why is that ? There are a lot of issue in the world and liberals are not helping any of them one bit.

  10. #488
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by edteach View Post

    You don't sue GM for a drunk driver driving a car into a group of people, you don't sue Buck Knives if someone used one of their knives to cut someones throat, you go after the individual for their criminal acts.
    Well, except when you do, and you go after the gun manufacturer, who goes bankrupt, and you win a 73 million dollar settlement with the manufacturer's insurance company and all the corporate documents come out in discovery.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ettlement.html

  11. #489
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,788
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 897 Times in 689 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Black people are not on the government tit any more than a white person would be on the same tit if they are/were in the same condition. Plenty of white people kill each other, are on Medicaid opioids, Ativan, Percocet, and other medications. You just hear about it more if they are black.

    And, since black people have systematically been prevented from similar opportunities as white people, wealth building as not kept up. It is the same as females not being paid the same as their male fellow employees. This shouldn't be news for anyone who keeps up. It is not about being woke. It is more about wandering around and paying attention.

  12. #490
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Black people are not on the government tit any more than a white person would be on the same tit if they are/were in the same condition. Plenty of white people kill each other, are on Medicaid opioids, Ativan, Percocet, and other medications. You just hear about it more if they are black.

    And, since black people have systematically been prevented from similar opportunities as white people, wealth building as not kept up. It is the same as females not being paid the same as their male fellow employees. This shouldn't be news for anyone who keeps up. It is not about being woke. It is more about wandering around and paying attention.
    This is such a load of bull crap. They have more opportunity, they can get into college and score less then whites or Asians, and there is no systemic racism. This is just a load of crap to cover looking for the real reason why they as a group do not excel and their communities are crap. Black on black crime is through the roof, yes there is white on white crime but why do you think that 10 percent of the population commits 80 percent of the crime? And no its not systemic racism. Why do you think the liberal idiots cities are such hell holes? Name me one black run city or township or country where its anything but sh!t holes. Just one. Its not about racism its about being accountable for your actions. No one put a silver spoon in my mouth. I did not have the fake you are a racist to fall back on when I was not given a chance or a job I wanted, I did not look for one, I keep on moving doing the best I could. I worked for every thing I have and I did actual work not sitting at some desk waving a pen around.

    If it is not black culture then tell me why poor white areas are not as bad [and I am not saying they are not bad] as many black areas? How a bout Pruitt Igoe, This was a 32 building 11 story high rise build in Saint Louis MO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CAfACI7LBY

    the liberal idiots will say there was not enough money allotted to take care of them. There is not enough money in the world for liberal idiots to burn. These buildings were very nice low income black used housing apartments. With in 20 years it looked like Beirut. Bullet riddled dedicating in the halls and elevators broken out windows ect.

    So please save me your virtue signaling BS.

  13. #491
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Someone ought to read Clayton Cramer's The Racist Roots of Gun Control, keeping in mind Malcolm X's admonition:

    “The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked or deceived by the white liberal, then Negros would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America, the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man.”

    Then ask themselves "why do white liberals want gun control"?

    Ken Blackwell, in his foreword to The Truth About Gun Control, Racism and Genocide said: "Many would argue that even today, blacks continue to suffer disproportionate harm from gun control laws, as major cities deny legal firearms to the residents of high-crime urban neighborhoods."
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  14. #492
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Black people are not on the government tit any more than a white person would be on the same tit if they are/were in the same condition. Plenty of white people kill each other, are on Medicaid opioids, Ativan, Percocet, and other medications. You just hear about it more if they are black.

    And, since black people have systematically been prevented from similar opportunities as white people, wealth building as not kept up. It is the same as females not being paid the same as their male fellow employees. This shouldn't be news for anyone who keeps up. It is not about being woke. It is more about wandering around and paying attention.
    More bull crap form a liberal or RINO. There is no real wage gap in womens vs mens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RDZw_xSvDg You are making excuses. I was raised in a home that had no money. My parents went on food stamps for one winter and they said they would die before they did it again. They were independent. They taught me to be independent. I am not rich but retired at 55 with 2.2 million in net worth. When I started out I was engaged and had no job. I went to a construction site as I was raised in the trades and this was 1980 when jobs in construction were rare as hens teeth. I got a job picking up scraps and doing odd jobs that did not fall into any trade category. I had no money and my parents did not give me a dime. I had to eat the doughnuts not eaten left in the boxs around the work site until I got my first check a month down the road. I swore I would work my ass off save and invest. I do not owe someone a dime because someone 165 years ago may have owned as a slave someones great great great grand father or mother. blacks no achieving now is on them the black individual. many succeed but not by sucking off the gov tit. So please save me the racist BS.

  15. #493
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Edteach, are you going to reply to me (I linked a court case for you) other than to laugh and mock and bring up race? I certainly said nothing about race.

  16. #494
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Someone ought to read Clayton Cramer's The Racist Roots of Gun Control, keeping in mind Malcolm X's admonition:

    “The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked or deceived by the white liberal, then Negros would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America, the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man.”

    Then ask themselves "why do white liberals want gun control"?

    Ken Blackwell, in his foreword to The Truth About Gun Control, Racism and Genocide said: "Many would argue that even today, blacks continue to suffer disproportionate harm from gun control laws, as major cities deny legal firearms to the residents of high-crime urban neighborhoods."
    Liberals want to control people. Blacks in general have given control over to liberals for the promise of a free I phone or Obama bucks. Its a scam to keep them in power. Liberal lie cheat and steal to keep power. This is not to say a conservative can not be wrong or criminal. The liberal push to ban all guns and don't you even dare try to pee in my ear and tell me its raining by saying that liberals only want some guns. That is one of the big lies the liberals try to tell. They want to control people. Look at Ukraine, a rag tag band of untrained people with a common cause giving hell to one of the biggest and well equipped and trained armies in the world. Liberals have told us for years that the Constitution is outdated and the second amendment does not apply because civilian with rifles can not fight against the US if it goes tyrannical like Canada.
    The liberals have taken our great country to the brink of collapse with the idiots printing money we can not afford to pay the interest on any more, shutting down our oil an gas exploration and development, Trying to teach racism in schools with such things as CRT and other BS that makes kids be oppressed and oppressors. Liberalism and socialism kills and I repeat myself. These liberal idiots such as AOC have no idea what a garbage disposal is vs knowing how economics 101 works. We have inflation going bat crap crazy while the idiot liberals laugh and dance like Nero and Rome. I am hoping we have a huge flush of the toilet this Nov. if not we are doomed to be a third world country as China and Russia eat our lunch dinner and breakfast.

  17. #495
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Edteach, are you going to reply to me (I linked a court case for you) other than to laugh and mock and bring up race? I certainly said nothing about race.
    A Slate opinion piece is not a court case. A court case lists a plaintiff and a defendant. Can you cite the case? The Slate article didn't even bother to include that - just that Remington's insurance companies reached a settlement. Settlements are usually reached out of court.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  18. #496
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Edteach, are you going to reply to me (I linked a court case for you) other than to laugh and mock and bring up race? I certainly said nothing about race.
    A Slate opinion piece is not a court case. A court case lists a plaintiff and a defendant. Can you cite the case? The Slate article didn't even bother to include that - just that Remington's insurance companies reached a settlement. Settlements are usually reached out of court.
    The case of Sandyhook was settled with the insurance company not Remington. they could have one going to the SCOTUS. It may not have been necessary to even go that high to win. But the insurance wanted to settle out of court. Sandyhook parents had no case. I believe they sued on the grounds that the advertising and I believe it showed a picture of the AR rifle and said consider your man card punched. It was all BS and they should have fought it. BTW I don't read Slate, Vox, the NYT, Mother Jones or any of the rest of the liberal propaganda BS.

  19. #497
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by edteach View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Edteach, are you going to reply to me (I linked a court case for you) other than to laugh and mock and bring up race? I certainly said nothing about race.
    A Slate opinion piece is not a court case. A court case lists a plaintiff and a defendant. Can you cite the case? The Slate article didn't even bother to include that - just that Remington's insurance companies reached a settlement. Settlements are usually reached out of court.
    The case of Sandyhook was settled with the insurance company not Remington. they could have one going to the SCOTUS. It may not have been necessary to even go that high to win. But the insurance wanted to settle out of court. Sandyhook parents had no case. I believe they sued on the grounds that the advertising and I believe it showed a picture of the AR rifle and said consider your man card punched. It was all BS and they should have fought it. BTW I don't read Slate, Vox, the NYT, Mother Jones or any of the rest of the liberal propaganda BS.
    But you claimed that no one can sue the manufacturer. You laughed at the idea and called it stupid. You happen to be wrong. They can, and they can succeed. This suit and this settlement were both all over the news, not just the outlets you sneer at. You might read a bit more before you mock.

    Similarly, cigarette manufacturers were sued in class action cases for their deceit and negligence and harmful effects of their products. That products are legal does not grant immunity from the legal and ethical consequences of use of their products and the marketing campaigns trying to sell those products.

  20. #498
    Senior Member edteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 49 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edteach View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Edteach, are you going to reply to me (I linked a court case for you) other than to laugh and mock and bring up race? I certainly said nothing about race.
    A Slate opinion piece is not a court case. A court case lists a plaintiff and a defendant. Can you cite the case? The Slate article didn't even bother to include that - just that Remington's insurance companies reached a settlement. Settlements are usually reached out of court.
    The case of Sandyhook was settled with the insurance company not Remington. they could have one going to the SCOTUS. It may not have been necessary to even go that high to win. But the insurance wanted to settle out of court. Sandyhook parents had no case. I believe they sued on the grounds that the advertising and I believe it showed a picture of the AR rifle and said consider your man card punched. It was all BS and they should have fought it. BTW I don't read Slate, Vox, the NYT, Mother Jones or any of the rest of the liberal propaganda BS.
    But you claimed that no one can sue the manufacturer. You laughed at the idea and called it stupid. You happen to be wrong. They can, and they can succeed. This suit and this settlement were both all over the news, not just the outlets you sneer at. You might read a bit more before you mock.

    Similarly, cigarette manufacturers were sued in class action cases for their deceit and negligence and harmful effects of their products. That products are legal does not grant immunity from the legal and ethical consequences of use of their products and the marketing campaigns trying to sell those products.
    You took what I said wrong. I did not mean to imply that a gun manufacture can not be sued. they sure can. If say colt made a gun that was too weak to take the pressure of a lode it was designed for and blew up on people they can be sued for making a faulty item that caused harm. If they knew it was faulty like the tobacco company's knew that they were manipulating tobacco to have more addictive content and lie about the harm it does, then they can be sued for that also. The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act , stops liberals from suing a gun manufacture for what some third party does with their product. Why should they be responsible for the misuse of their products? If someone uses a truck to mow down 50 people and kill them GM or Ford is not the issue its the crazy idiot driving the truck. Now if GM said our trucks can mow down 100 people in one go then they could possibly be sued. But to sue a manufacture for the misuse of their product by a third party is insane and many knew the left would try to use this fraudulently to try to bankrupt the gun industry. This is whey the
    Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was passed in the first place.

  21. #499
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by edteach View Post

    You took what I said wrong.
    No, I did not take you wrong. You laughed and screamed and called it the dumbest idea you had heard in a week. You just didn't even bother to look up the case that I referenced (I typed it out in plain letters: Sandy Hook).

    I get it, you're passionate and triggered. But next time you call someone else's idea stupid, you might want to make sure that you know what is being discussed. The Sandy Hook case is real, they sued, they got 73 million dollars. They got documents. Remington declared bankruptcy and has been broken up and sold off.

    Good riddens.

  22. #500
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by edteach View Post
    Blacks in general have given control over to liberals for the promise of a free I phone or Obama bucks.
    This is straight racist screed. You should be embarassed to type it, anywhere, even a private internet forum.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •