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Thread: The US 2nd Amendment.....

  1. #481
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    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Youíre right. Liberals canít debate ideas.
    I consume both left and right wing media. I mean in the American sense of left and right wing, not European, where democrats are considered the far right. I would generally agree with you, the right does seem to have more logically consistent arguments, whereas the left seems to appeal a lot more to emotions. Since I have the capability of emotional range of a toaster, I frequently find it hard to understand the lefts' point of view, but I guess a healthy amount of both is needed for a functional country.

  2. #482
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Youíre right. Liberals canít debate ideas.
    I consume both left and right wing media. I mean in the American sense of left and right wing, not European, where democrats are considered the far right. I would generally agree with you, the right does seem to have more logically consistent arguments, whereas the left seems to appeal a lot more to emotions. Since I have the capability of emotional range of a toaster, I frequently find it hard to understand the lefts' point of view, but I guess a healthy amount of both is needed for a functional country.
    Well, I was just making a joke by playing off your post; but I agree with you.

    That being said, the right also makes arguments from emotion (if not as often as the left).

  3. #483
    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: The US 2nd Amendment.....

    I still think Haidt's book is excellent.

    Political arguments are constructed based on an instinctive conclusion. That's why when you shoot a faulty argument down, you don't typically win over the person making that argument. They just figure they need to construct a better argument. I don't argue with people in forums about 2A issues because I expect to convince them. What I generally hope to do is to undermine the premise that gun owners are dangerous knuckle-draggers who are stubbornly resistant to facts and logic, and if anti-gunners have been misled by their favored sources, I hope to reveal that to them. They may change their own minds later, but if they do, it will be their idea, I think.

    I'll be the first to admit that my position on the 2A is based on the principle that the right of armed self-defense is a natural right. Consequently, even if you were to prove, as you might, that owning firearms is "not good for people" on average, I would not change my mind about the inalienability of this natural right. Natural rights are not defined in terms of benefit or harm. There are many things that I have a right to do that I nevertheless do not do because I think they would not be good for me. I have no objection to being convinced about how to exercise my own discretion more intelligently, but this cannot affect what is and what is not a natural right. Compensating for our natural limitations with tools in order to survive is built in to what it means to be human. An 80 year-old, 90 pound woman has the inalienable right to defend herself against 25 year-old, 250 pound thugs if she can, and she's not going to be able to do that by mastering Taekwondo.
    Last edited by mhosea; June 15th, 2018 at 03:09 PM.
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    Mike

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