Writing samples of <1mm stubs?

[katherine]

Hey fpgeeks!

Greg Minuskin has been listing a bunch of narrower stubs, .6 to .9ish, for what doesn't seem like a crazy amount of money. I've never owned a stub (I've always tended to prefer fine pens, and have stuck to that preference with my fountain pens), but now I'm curious.

Does anyone have writing samples with narrower stubs? Any thoughts/preferences?
If I'm getting my first stub, am I better off getting something more "dramatic" and different from my existing pens like a 1.1mm?

Thanks!

[Jon Szanto]

It all depends on how you want the writing to look.

First off, stub vs. italic. I know Greg, and he's pretty careful, but a lot of people throw the 2 terms around without a lot of care. A true stub will have rounder edges so that it is a little more forgiving in behavior, with the downside being that you give up the very crisp 'narrow' line of a good italic grind. The point of all of these nibs is pretty basic: make a wide(r) line on a vertical stroke, and a narrow(er) line on a horizontal stroke.

The thing is... the wider the nib, the more difference there can be in those two strokes. The narrow line, as the very leading edge of the nib is made very, very thin, is something that can only go so far before you have, essentially, a razor blade. On the other hand, the width of the nib is only limited by... the width of the nib! So with your 1.1mm stub/italic, you should get at least 1.1 wide lines up-and-down, probably more with ink flow and what-not, and then nice narrow lines when you move horizontally. Lots of difference and variation there.

So what about a narrower grind? Take a guess: not as much variation. But... so what? It still imparts a lot of character to your handwriting as opposed to a standard, mono-width rounded nib. I can't do it now, but can upload a scan of some samples. Oddly enough, I was just (delightfully) comparing and playing with two very similar nibs/pens that had been ground by two of the masters: Mike Masuyama and John Mottishaw. They are both fairly crisp italics, with Mike's about a 0.7mm and John's about 0.6mm. Hardly noticeable, but... noticeable. I love them both, and they were done exactly how I wanted. I can say a little more when I upload a sample, maybe later tonight.

It's worth it, having a narrower stub/italic, but you need to be aware it changes the degree of variation.

Unless the nib is flexible.

[bluesea]

Hi,
I have a Franklin-Christoph Masuyama steel .9mm, a Pendleton Brown BLS stub on a Pilot Custom 74 (originally a med), and an early '90s MB 146 BLS ground from what was either a fat fine or a slim medium nib.

The MB is narrower than the Pilot, and the nibs.com "Tipping Size" chart says the Pilot m ball nib is .55mm wide. Not sure how much if any width is lost in grinding a ball nib to a stub. I asked Pendleton for a BLS with all day smoothness as a primary characteristic and he delivered, as the Pilot is a bit rounder and noticeably smoother than the F-C Masuyama (and the MB).

My pics (and handwriting) are not very revealing, but the one below was posted in the cursive italic thread in the Reviews Forum.


click for better clarity

[Bogon07]

Bear in mind most people seem to write with their italic/stub 'blade' rotated slightly from being parallel to the page lines so their vertical strokes will appear slightly thinner than the actual width of the nib. Conversely this will tend to thicken the width of the horizontal stroke to a lesser degree.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Indeed. For true italic writing the nib is at 45 degrees from horizontal to the line, but I daresay most of us rotate our nibs a bit when writing our usual hand.


Jon, I would like to know more about the Masuyama grind if you please! I have splurged out and acquired a Ranga pen that has a #6 Jowo screw in nib, and was of a mind to furnish it with a Masuyama medium italic in same. I much prefer crisp italics to stubs and find them easier - paradoxically - to write with.

[stub]

The .6~.9 stubs are my favorite for every day use. They won't often give you the dramatic line variation you get with a larger stub or true formal italic but they do add flair and are useful for everyday writing as they are small enough to use for real work and much more forgiving than a true sharp formal italic. I have 2 stubs that are .5 and the effect is subtle indeed but you can see the difference with a round nib in a side by side comparison and these stubs work nicely on 7mm lined paper. But this is the lower limit for me. Smaller and there really is no reason for a stub (imo), even a crisp one is hard to see at that point.

The nibs you speak of .6~.9 give more of an effect and are about as large as I can use on lined paper. They still give me some flair and lay down some ink without looking crowded. I find that to be the sweet spot. I have stubs that are larger and formal italics but I use those for things other than note taking.

I have 2 .8mm stubs that are amongst my all time favorites, a Parker Vac and a Sheaffer Sentinel Deluxe.

[stub]

very quick and dirty. I usually don't post anything with my handwriting ever but maybe this helps.... (I also smudged it putting it on the scanner. yay dumb me.

[bluesea]

More of the F-C .9mm with little more smaller writing. I also have the Plumix 1.0 Italic and it writers very similar to the F-C Masuyama .9, although less sharp with correspondingly less line variation. Still very nice

[JackdeSpadas]

Hi Katherine,

I know exactly what you mean. I purchased a 1.1 mm stub as my second fp--and I love it!--but often it's just too big. Then I saw some nice pics on FPN of stubs in the 0.6-0.9 mm range and knew I had to try something smaller. My only practical choice has been (so far) to grind my own from stock Preppies. Since these are ground from stock Medium and Fine Preppies (0.5 and 0.3 mm, respectively), they hopefully give some indication of the smaller end of the range of possibility. (I tried a EF 0.2mm, but ruined it. I need more practice before trying that again.)

They are good enough for me, and my wife has graciously claimed to like the one I did for her, but they are by no means professional. Nor, sadly, is the handwriting--sorry. With the requisite disclaimers out of the way, I hope the image below does not dissuade you from your quest. I'm sure the true professionals out there will be able to do far better.

[brunico]

am I better off getting something more "dramatic" and different from my existing pens like a 1.1mm?

Drama isn't necessarily a good thing. Many people go crazy for "line variation," whether italic or flex, but they both have the potential to turn what the purchaser thinks is lacklustre handwriting into something that is actually grotesque. A line that varies its width isn't actually all that impressive. No one has ever looked at my handwriting and cooed "Ooh, line variation!"

Remember it's not the line that's supposed to look good, but the letter. If a finer italic gives you better results, that's the better choice for you. It will almost certainly look better than writing the same size letters that you do now with a fine nib but using a broad italic. Some people - not on this thread - post photos to show off their amazing line variation, but they write so small and so ineptly (doing things like filling in the closed area of an 'e') that you can't actually see any.

Anyway, I have an italic fountain pen that gives a ratio of 11:1 in thick to thin strokes, so I remain dry in any pissing contest.

[penwash]

Katherine,

Here is a writing sample from my 3 stub/italic pens:



NOTE:
Both the Kaweco and Stipula have factory nibs.
The Pioneer's nib was home-ground. And I like the way it writes better than the Stipula.

[VAA]

The Pilot Plumix was mentioned briefly here and Id say get one to see if it's something you like. They are cheap( $15 or less), have a 1.0 italic nib and write very well. The one I have is pretty smooth. If you decide that it's not for you then the investment wasn't that much so no harm done.

I will say that I liked the kind of uniqueness it added and I now have a TWSBI with a BLS, a few Masuyama stubs and cursive italics, a Shinobi with a .7 cursive italic ground by Mr. Newton. My 2 most used pens are my Conid with a medium stub Ti nib and my Nakaya Neo-Standard with a stubbed soft medium nib by Mr. Mottishaw. They are fantastic.

[Mags]

I do not have a writing sample but the Minushkin stub I own was: a) expensive and b) a wider 1.4 mm stub on a Parker 51.

My Minushkin nib versus alternatives.....I do enjoy the nib rebuild that was done and while I do not use the pen often any more it is enjoyable when I do use it. It really is on par with a factory Pelican M or Broad on the M600-1000 range of pens and they can have a cost 2 or 3 times the price of a Parker 51 touched by Greg.

[JackdeSpadas]

Katherine,

Here is a writing sample from my 3 stub/italic pens:



NOTE:
Both the Kaweco and Stipula have factory nibs.
The Pioneer's nib was home-ground. And I like the way it writes better than the Stipula.

Wow, big difference between the Pioneer and the Stipula. Would the inks be playing apart in that?

[penwash]

Katherine,

Here is a writing sample from my 3 stub/italic pens:



NOTE:
Both the Kaweco and Stipula have factory nibs.
The Pioneer's nib was home-ground. And I like the way it writes better than the Stipula.

Wow, big difference between the Pioneer and the Stipula. Would the inks be playing apart in that?

I think the difference is because the Stipula is a factory stub,
while the Pioneer is an italic grind (I didn't round the edges).

Either way, I like the Pioneer the way it is now.

[JackdeSpadas]

I'm with you regarding the Pioneer. Makes sense given the italic vs. stub grinds--I obviously wasn't paying attention the first time around. :/