Fountain Pens Identification Help Need

[DiscoNinja]

Hi. Can someone please help me to identify those two beautiful fountain pens.
Thank you very much !

[Jeph]

They look like generic third tier (small private manufacturer using parts from other sources) probably German piston fillers. The nibs are probably generic. If there is any writing at all anywhere on either pen that might help.

The coloring alone means that in my mind they are still worth restoring but will probably not have significant collector value.
I have a Merlin with that same silver marble celluloid but they got that from an outside source.
Linky Merlin-Lady
I would be careful of the other one due to the coloring, it screams Casein to me which means absolutely don't soak it in water.

[Chrissy]

I think these pens look quite interesting, and you may find some clue to their identity on the nibs if not the clips. You might even have a gold nib in the lower one.
Can you read what it says on the nibs, or is there any text printed onto the sides of the pen barrels?
How do they fill with ink? Can you see a lever in the side of the barrel on either pen or do they unscrew in the middle?