Pelikan Athens City Series Fountain Pen

[Crazyorange]

Several months ago I saw a post for pelikan Athens at $700 - which was way beyond my budget.

I've noticed the seller has posted the ad several times which tells me - it's over priced.

When I saw Chris's ad - I knew the price was top tier and probably won't sell (at least on the forum). So I skipped over it.

It would have been nice if Chris had said ....Hey folks xyz is for sale at the FPH. I would have bought the pen for use and enjoyment. I've always thought fountain pen people were helpful in guiding members to deals and special sales. That's one of the best parts belonging to the "collective". Others helping you build your collection.

[pajaro]

I found this thread amusing. Can you imagine finding a thread like this on FPN? The PC Gestapo would have you thrown into outer darkness with bell, book and candle faster than you could say "chit, man." Even more ironic because of their using the corruption of their for sale columns for revenue extraction from diamond sellers who flood the ads with their own umpteen ads, each for one pen, pushing others off the front page.

[KBeezie]

For something like a Pen, you can ask whatever price you want. Just doesn't mean you're going to get what you asked for.

[prime.lens]

Is there some recommended markup that is acceptable? Or is all markup frowned upon and everyone on the forum only sells pens for the price they paid or less?

[bluesea]

Is there some recommended markup that is acceptable? Or is all markup frowned upon and everyone on the forum only sells pens for the price they paid or less?

It depends on your interpretation of this community, your part in it, and the ethics that come out of that. For my part I do not come to enthusiast discussion fora whether for pens, audio, or bicycles and sell at a profit. I'm not a collector, nor do I buy or sell as a collector. Anything that comes into my hands, is already devalued.

[SeminarianMike]

I really wish I had the money to buy this cause I love the pen I would pay extra money for the piece of mind that I getting a good pen and! It would end this back and forth stuff! God bless you all!

[heraclitus682]

Let's not forget that it is one of the best looking pens that Pelikan has produced in a while, in my opinion.

[Lady Onogaro]

I really wish I had the money to buy this cause I love the pen I would pay extra money for the piece of mind that I getting a good pen and! It would end this back and forth stuff! God bless you all!

From what Jon is saying, it wouldn't have cost you much more than your Montblancs if you had seen it and bought it from Fountain Pen Hospital, so if you want one, you might look there in the "Back Room" page or the Super Specials page every now and then.

[heraclitus682]

There's a really nice Chicago at FPH for $350. Tempting.

[SeminarianMike]

I really wish I had the money to buy this cause I love the pen I would pay extra money for the piece of mind that I getting a good pen and! It would end this back and forth stuff! God bless you all!

From what Jon is saying, it wouldn't have cost you much more than your Montblancs if you had seen it and bought it from Fountain Pen Hospital, so if you want one, you might look there in the "Back Room" page or the Super Specials page every now and then.

When I have some $$$ I will, my montblancs were gifts or really good deals! Hehe thank you for your input

[Jholden]

That Chicago pen is a great buy. I'm getting ready to list one for $385.00

[fountainpenkid]

Is there some recommended markup that is acceptable? Or is all markup frowned upon and everyone on the forum only sells pens for the price they paid or less?

In my opinion, no markup is acceptable unless modifications of value were made. As others have said, what defines a non-commercial community is trust between its members. This trust is most effectively developed when a moral economy of sharing is built, which is exactly what happens in my view when you sell a pen for what you bought it for. I see profit-making as breaking the bond of trust because it introduces financial gain, which is inherently against the ethic of a 'shared economy.'

[prime.lens]

In my opinion, no markup is acceptable unless modifications of value were made. As others have said, what defines a non-commercial community is trust between its members. This trust is most effectively developed when a moral economy of sharing is built, which is exactly what happens in my view when you sell a pen for what you bought it for. I see profit-making as breaking the bond of trust because it introduces financial gain, which is inherently against the ethic of a 'shared economy.'

So why not put that in the rules -- or at least state it explicitly as part of an honor code, instead of leaving it up to the interpretation of individuals?

I see many listings where the asking price seems on the high side and it's likely that the seller is asking more then s/he paid for the item. I see no problem with that since many sellers here, even if they are selling for a profit, are more trustworthy and will communicate and answer questions better than taking a chance on eBay.

But if indeed this is some sort of unwritten expectation that only exists as a select group's interpretation of what "community" should be then I don't think they should be imposing it on others. Other perfectly honest and reliable sellers might have different expectations and still be great members of the community.

[ChrisC]

I don't think that profits damage a community. If one doesn't want to partake in the profit-making aspect of it, they're free to not conduct business at a profit. If you sell something at a profit and the buyer is content at the price paid, what problem has been caused?

That said, if either the community democratically (not just a few deciding) decided to ban markups on the "For Sale" section, or if the forum owner made that decision, I would faithfully and honestly abide by it, despite the near-impossibility of enforcement. Then if that happened, I'd hope that there could be a new "eBay Listing" sub forum where forum members could find listings by trustworthy members of FPGeeks community.

I think that many less pens would be listed if a rule against markups was instituted (provided that ppl complied ). I think this would be a great loss. Many of us are willing to pay more for pens that we are looking for, especially the rare ones.

[Inxoy]

This is a dangerous, dangerous slope to start dictating how everyone should conduct their business. There is a name for what you're trying to do.

[fountainpenkid]

I don't think that profits damage a community. If one doesn't want to partake in the profit-making aspect of it, they're free to not conduct business at a profit. If you sell something at a profit and the buyer is content at the price paid, what problem has been caused?

That said, if either the community democratically (not just a few deciding) decided to ban markups on the "For Sale" section, or if the forum owner made that decision, I would faithfully and honestly abide by it, despite the near-impossibility of enforcement. Then if that happened, I'd hope that there could be a new "eBay Listing" sub forum where forum members could find listings by trustworthy members of FPGeeks community.

I think that many less pens would be listed if a rule against markups was instituted (provided that ppl complied ). I think this would be a great loss. Many of us are willing to pay more for pens that we are looking for, especially the rare ones.

This is a dangerous, dangerous slope to start dictating how everyone should conduct their business. There is a name for what you're trying to do.

To be clear, I am not in any way suggesting there be a rule or even an official suggestion about profit-making--such a thing would be, as you say, detrimental to the whole community and would conflict with the libertarian nature of this and many other fora: verbally enforcing tacit culture is totalitarian. I would like to distinguish what I wrote before as a theoretical opinion, not a command--I think the difference is crucial.

[Sandy Fry]

I will make one last point in this discussion and then hope it all ends soon.

The point that most folks appear to be missing is that we all buy pens and probably from the same places. So, when you find a good deal there is a very good chance that a great number of people here also saw that deal. Therefore it would seem a little naive to come here and then try to sell it at a massive profit and not expect some backlash.

No-one is saying that the OP isn't entitled to sell his pen for a profit but, as I said above, it is a little naive to come here to do it when most folks know the original price paid. I think that what might be irking some people is the fact that the OP bought the pen with ( seemingly ) no intention of keeping it but trying to make a huge profit ( again, no rule against that ) when someone who really wanted the pen missed out on getting it at the discounted price.

I don't think much would have been said if the OP had offered a " fair " price here in the community and, he could still have made a healthy profit, someone who truly wanted the pen would still have gotten a bargain. A win-win situation IMHO.

I think this discussion will just keep going round in circles as there are folks on both side of the fence. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

@OP...good luck in selling your pen here. Good looking pen ( and it was still available at FPH when I saw it ) but not a Pelikan fan so passed on it. You got a remarkably good deal and I think you were being a wee bit greedy with your mark-up. Pass your good fortune on to someone who really wants the pen.
I have looked at a few of the pens you had on the For Sale section but you lost my trust and respect and I would never considering buying a pen from you at this time.

I am done with this post now.

Bliadhna mhath ur

David

[whichwatch]

I like to buy pre-owned pens on the various sales boards. I also sometimes end up selling some - usually to help fund something else I see that I would like to try.

Sometimes I end up selling for less than I paid for a certain pen. I wonder if the people suggesting that "in the name of community" people should sell pens only for what they paid would be willing to make up the losses I sometimes take. Hey, it's all for the good of the community, right? Or do they believe markets are strictly a one way street where it's acceptable to lose, but not acceptable to sometimes win?

[dduran]

I don't think anyone here is expecting "everyone" to sell at a loss..
Also don't think anyone would have objected if the pen was listed with a reasonable mark-up, right?

To reiterate David's (Sandy Fry) point, people here are informed and when they see something like this, they can't stop but protect the other members.. so they're not stopping the OP per se but are just stepping up for the others..

[prime.lens]

I don't think anyone here is expecting "everyone" to sell at a loss..
Also don't think anyone would have objected if the pen was listed with a reasonable mark-up, right?

To reiterate David's (Sandy Fry) point, people here are informed and when they see something like this, they can't stop but protect the other members.. so they're not stopping the OP per se but are just stepping up for the others..

I agree with that. If the posts against OP had just mentioned that this pen is available at FPH for $450 or whatever then potential buyers would know and have enough information to decide for themselves. And that would be that.

What irks me a little bit is that some of the condemnation is a bit strong: from a moralistic tone about community spirit to "I never make a profit from the community." Well maybe you don't, but what if someone else does not have that luxury and needs the money to stay in the hobby? OP's markup is a bit steep and an informed buyer would likely not buy the pen from him, but it is my understanding that he is selling the pen at roughly market value.

Are we really saying that if someone finds a MB149 for $20 at a garage sale, they can't sell it at its market price on the forum? If this is the case (and for some posters, this seems to be the reasoning) then I am fine with it but it needs to be enshrined in the rules, rather than be subject to individual expectations of "community." If anything OP was naive to try to flip it so early and to post the original documentation. Others will just hold on to it for a while and sell it without the documentation later. So, OP is basically being taken to the cleaners for being too forthcoming about his profit making.

When I was in grad school, I would buy vintage cameras if I found them at a good price. I'd use them for a while, clean them up and sell them, often at a moderate profit. It was the only way I could explore the number of cameras that I did while being a grad student. Now I don't need to do that for pens, but who am I to judge someone else's situation?