Montblanc Meisterstuck 146 Le Grand Fountain Pen

[13aphomet]

Hey guys and gals!!

Have a Montblanc Meisterstuck 146 Le Grand fountain pen with two-tone 14k Medium nib. This pen is freshly back from the Mont Blanc spa...today. They replaced the tube, adjusted the nib, replaced the piston and a few other things I'm sure. It pretty much looks and writes like a brand new pen. No cracks or anything bad on this one. It writes very very smoothly. Comes with MB clamshell (the clamshell has a small blue ink stain on the inside of the lid).
*Sorry for the crappy pictures..

Asking $300 Shipped $270 Shipped
Paypal Only. Gift or add 3.5%

Thanks for looking!!!!

[13aphomet]

Big Price Drop!!
I know the pictures don't really convey it, but this pen looks practically new.

[heraclitus682]

Yet another seller asking me to gift Isn't this against paypal rules and doesn't it leave me vulnerable to scams?

[13aphomet]

Yet another seller asking me to gift Isn't this against paypal rules and doesn't it leave me vulnerable to scams?

I'm just giving you the option. It's either use gift or add the appropriate amount to the asking price to cover fee's. This is ultra-common in the forums I'm used to posting in, mainly because it gives the buyer the choice and allows them to save a little money if the seller's feedback score warrants some trust. I've used gift over 500 times to buy and sell and have never had a problem, it does require knowing when to use it and knowing when not to.. hence, the choice.

So are you buying my pen or did you just feel like this was a nice place to start a discussion..?

[KBeezie]

Yet another seller asking me to gift Isn't this against paypal rules and doesn't it leave me vulnerable to scams?

I'm just giving you the option. It's either use gift or add the appropriate amount to the asking price to cover fee's. This is ultra-common in the forums I'm used to posting in, mainly because it gives the buyer the choice and allows them to save a little money if the seller's feedback score warrants some trust. I've used gift over 500 times to buy and sell and have never had a problem, it does require knowing when to use it and knowing when not to.. hence, the choice.

So are you buying my pen or did you just feel like this was a nice place to start a discussion..?

I think he's just bringing up the point that when you send money as 'gift' on Paypal you lose the buyer protection (no ability to file a dispute/claim).
Most sellers I know incorporate the fee into their asking price.

[heraclitus682]

I felt like this was a nice place to start a discussion. Listen here, lazy sellers, just add the fees that paypal adds to your post. It seems to be, always, new sellers that does this nonsense. Can I report you to paypal? I'm going to look into this.

[heraclitus682]

Oh, and no, I won't buy your pen. You are willing to cheat paypal. Makes me wonder if you are willing to cheat me.

[13aphomet]

Dude, are you kidding? By all means rat me out to Paypal.. It's not in any way against the rules, it just forgoes the Paypal protection. I've personally mentioned this to a Paypal rep before.

I am in NO WAY a new seller. In this forum, I am.. but in other's I've been selling for a long time. See photo below from bladeforums. On Bladeforums and USN asking to use Gift or add fee's is common place (as it should be). It allows the buyer to choose a discount if they trust the seller. I'm not asking anyone to use gift, they certainly can add the fee's instead.
I cannot fathom why this is complicated to anyone. You want protection, add fee's.. you see that a guy has done 50 flawless transactions, save a little loot. I wish Lisantica would chime in, she's a member of the other forums I am and would absolutely attest to the fact that this is just how things are done over there and many other places.
If it's against fpgeeks rules - I won't do it.. Otherwise, I give my buyers the choice. If you don't like it, it's easy - Don't buy. Be mad, rat me out to Paypal (which they'll have no problem with because they don't have to add protection), or cry yourself to sleep. Just please, don't just jump all over my thread. If you have a problem, or if anyone else has an opinion, PM a moderator or myself.
I am in NO WAY whatsoever interested in ripping anybody off and my feedback clearly shows that. Any buyer that has a problem with anything they buy from me can return it to me for a refund. I'll look into this further, if it's against the rules of Paypal, I'll stop posting like this.. if not, I prefer to give my buyers a choice.

[13aphomet]

-- Just for the record. I just called Paypal and they re-iterated what I was told in the past by a customer service rep.
The Gift or Friends and Family option is just like handing the person cash. It forgoes the buyer protection/dispute process.
It is not in any way against the rules of Paypal to sell something using Gift - because what the fee's are for is the protection they provide.

Again, I give my buyers the option so they can make an informed decision based on my feedback.

[mulrich]

From paypals terms of service

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

[13aphomet]

From paypals terms of service

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

Correct. What IS against the rules is being a seller or store and requiring people to use a Personal Payment. That's definitely, and should be, against the rules. You're telling people that they're not allowed to protect themselves in any way.
When I talked to Paypal, I explained my EXACT situtaion. I framed it like this.. "So I'm doing *this*, I just wanted to make sure that I'm not breaking any rules or am going to get in trouble for it in any way.."
Paypal said, "Nope, you're fine. People do that all the time but you just have to understand that they wouldn't be able to dispute it."

[Wile E Coyote]

From paypals terms of service

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

You missed 4.5:

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

[13aphomet]

Listen everyone.. This IS a discussion to be had. Whether it be about what fpgeeks rules should be, what is or is not against PP's rules or as a purely philosophical discussion.
I really do NOT think that the conversation should be had in my thread though.

Could mod's please delete all the posts not pertaining to this sale?? If that's not possible, please close the thread.

I just want to say that I think people should be able to have a legitimate, intelligent conversation without throwing words around like lazy, or calling me a cheat. That is ridiculous, clearly not the case and has no place in MY thread. There are other forums here for that type of discussion.

[13aphomet]

From paypals terms of service

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

You missed 4.5:

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

I'm not sure what would constitute a surcharge, but I really, truly, absolutely was crystal clear about EXACTLY what I was doing down to the forum name and name and price of the pen and Paypal gave me the thumbs up. So I guess we can say that adding the PP fee's absolutely does NOT constitute a Surcharge..

[mhosea]

I'm not sure what would constitute a surcharge, but I really, truly, absolutely was crystal clear about EXACTLY what I was doing down to the forum name and name and price of the pen and Paypal gave me the thumbs up. So I guess we can say that adding the PP fee's absolutely does NOT constitute a Surcharge..

I've also heard that you can call the IRS and ask them tax questions.

I've written a little article on how to handle this in a way that should make everyone happy. Hope it helps.

[Sandy Fry]

Great explanation Mike!

I use PayPal to pay for my pens all the time ( unless a store does not offer payment that way and, surprisingly, some still don't ) but if I see " Gift or add 3.5% " I pass on it even if it is a pen I am looking for. I would rather just pay the extra shipping cost and keep my buyer protection or buy the pen elsewhere.

The only way I MIGHT not pass on " Gift or add 3.5% " is if the pen was a particularly difficult item to find but in this case it is a common MontBlanc 146 so I would most definitely pass.

David

[Wile E Coyote]

From paypals terms of service

4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

You missed 4.5:

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

I'm not sure what would constitute a surcharge, but I really, truly, absolutely was crystal clear about EXACTLY what I was doing down to the forum name and name and price of the pen and Paypal gave me the thumbs up. So I guess we can say that adding the PP fee's absolutely does NOT constitute a Surcharge..

Per OED:

Definition of surcharge in English:

noun

1An additional charge or payment:

[13aphomet]

Great explanation Mike!

I use PayPal to pay for my pens all the time ( unless a store does not offer payment that way and, surprisingly, some still don't ) but if I see " Gift or add 3.5% " I pass on it even if it is a pen I am looking for. I would rather just pay the extra shipping cost and keep my buyer protection or buy the pen elsewhere.

The only way I MIGHT not pass on " Gift or add 3.5% " is if the pen was a particularly difficult item to find but in this case it is a common MontBlanc 146 so I would most definitely pass.

David

Why would you pass on it right out of the gate? If you wanted to keep your buyer protection in this instance all you would have to do is add the 3.5% and you'd have it.. I'm not sure I understand what people have against having a choice..

[heymatthew]

Is there pizza being offered at all? I would possibly be willing to forgive the travesty of your giving the buyer a choice if you were willing to, say, throw in a small Papa John's Pizza delivered to my house upon receipt of payment for that pen up there... This thread is both hilarious and infuriating. I'm a member of Fuji-X Forum, Fred Miranda, Rangefinder Forum, Photographer's Lounge and APUG.org and ALL OF THOSE FORUMS use the practice of giving the buyer the choice. Personally, I just bump up my price enough to cover the fees and shipping.

However, it is not at all uncommon to see a member ask for $X for their gear plus the fee unless paid for with a no-fee option. That no-fee option could be a bank transfer, personal check, cashier's check, money order, PayPal Gift (aka Friends and Family), face-to-face cash transaction, etc. I think, OP, you would be safe asking for the cost of the pen plus any associated fees (PayPal and shipping) which are calculated AT COST once a price is agreed upon. Say, for instance, I offered you $200 for the pen and you agreed. The cost is then $200 via no-fee payment (you take a check or money order as well and ship upon clearance of payment, yes?) or is $200 plus applicable fees for regular PayPal with buyer protection plus actual shipping costs to my door via, say, two options (First Class Insured and Priority Mail Insured).

I have personally paid via the Gift option AT MY DISCRETION and have also used Checks, Money Orders and Bank Transfers or Square Cash to pay for thousands of dollars in camera gear. I have over 200 positive feedbacks on Fred Miranda alone. I've literally bought and sold tens of thousands of dollars in camera gear. I stand behind my items and I have a sterling reputation for doing so just as it appears the OP does at other forums. I've cross-shipped $1000 cameras with other members for trades. I've sold via Gift at the buyer's discretion (although I never ever require it, just like the OP). And I've taken personal checks more than once. As soon as the check clears, the gear ships. Unless the person has a reputation similar to mine, in which case I usually just ship the item out so they receive their item when I receive my check. I've also been willing to split the fees with individuals if they meet my asking price. Say I'm offering an item at $1000 and the fees will be $60 (shipping and PayPal combined). I'll eat $30 to move a $1000 item. No problem.

Buying online should be approached cautiously. You have to be smart about it. If a person with only 1 post on this forum offers to sell you a $10,000 Montegrappa via PayPal Gift and they have no online presence, I think you can pretty much guess that's going to be a scam. Pay via regular PayPal and cover the fees so you're protected. But if this guy, who seems to have several posts and is willing to offer up references via other fora, is offering to sell it via REGULAR PayPal with the buyer covering the fee or No-Fee PayPal, do your homework, make an informed decision as a responsible adult and buy the pen. Hell, make him an offer and see if you can't get it at a lower price, even which then negates your extra fees as they're eaten up in the lower cost so you actually make out better. Seems like a reasonable enough guy to me, I'm sure he's open to offers...

Or, pass on it and keep your mouth shut. This is not the place to police his practices nor his prices. This "policing" of the boards has become more common than I'd like to see and really tends to offer no suitable resolution, but instead creates a pissing match about what is right or wrong. Reporting people to PayPal is childish unless they're explicitly breaking the rules or doing something wrong. Reminds me of a neighbor we had once that called the cops almost daily for anything from a "weird guy walking down the street" to "neighborhood kids kicked their football into my flower bed." I tend to mind my own business, but this witch hunt is pretty uncalled for.

Sorry OP. Wish I had the cash for your 146. I'd buy it in a minute. Unfortunately, funds don't allow, but I felt it necessary to drop my 2 cents in here along with everyone else. My apologies for the continued derailment of your ad. Best of luck with the sale.

[13aphomet]

Thank you Heymatthew, I appreciate some reasonable feedback on the situation. I was honestly asking myself.."Am I f***ing crazy or in the twilight zone or something..?" Potential buyers are given the choice, that's all. They can buy or not buy as they see fit. Every forum I've ever been a part of has worked this way, so to me, my ad was just par for the course.. If things are done differently here, so be it... Unfortunately, instead of being met with understanding and camaraderie; I'm basically called a thief and a cheat.
I'd like to see more out of this forum. I'm still wondering why a mod hasn't chimed in. Jumping all over someones sales thread is rude and in my mind should be the one thing that IS banned in this forum.

I'm absolutely fine with following the rules of whatever forum I'm a part of. Again, if this is really a big deal, try to get the rules changed.
Hopefully, this thread gets closed and I can just start another one... which will also give the buyer a choice of gift or adding the 3.5% fee's..