Page 26 of 36 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast
Results 501 to 520 of 718

Thread: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

  1. #501
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by pengeezer View Post
    +1.

    Dr. Deans couldn't have said it any better and it was what I had suspected--that someone at MB pulled their petty stunt to
    cover their mistake and it blew up in their face. Creating their contradictory rules has already come to
    bite them in the hind leg--if they keep it up they won't have a leg to stand on.



    John
    I thought that this was no more persuasive than any other set of unattributed suggestions and innuendo on the internet--all without a single name or quotation or specific reference (except the username "Wim"). This is what I came away with as a thesis, in two parts, in my words: (1) "Maybe a few Montblanc customers who actually visit FPN and are bothered by what they don't actually see will be annoyed by this action by FPN admins to the point that they will purchase fewer Montblanc products." And (2) "I wish that FPN would not remove these types of posts." Well, ok.

  2. #502
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Woke up this morning and found this short lived thread about the Peneconomics blog:
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...-peneconomics/
    It's LONG-LIVED here (posting this on page 26)

  3. #503
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    6,617
    Thanks
    7,796
    Thanked 11,042 Times in 4,011 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    I thought that this was no more persuasive than any other set of unattributed suggestions and innuendo on the internet--all without a single name or quotation or specific reference (except the username "Wim"). This is what I came away with as a thesis, in two parts, in my words: (1) "Maybe a few Montblanc customers who actually visit FPN and are bothered by what they don't actually see will be annoyed by this action by FPN admins to the point that they will purchase fewer Montblanc products." And (2) "I wish that FPN would not remove these types of posts." Well, ok.
    Honestly, that's a bit my take-away, too. When I started this (long) thread, I said I wouldn't fully consider the matter until the second part has been written. Now that it has, I'm left with a feeling not unlike someone who has eaten a large but mainly nourishment-free meal. I really had hoped for more illumination from sources in the follow-up, but we're left with a story that has been played out on FPN for a long time, with only a minimal twist being potential outside influence. Barring any data, it's hard to point fingers, and becomes just more speculation. It hasn't changed my viewpoints on the site, for the better or for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    It's LONG-LIVED here (posting this on page 26)
    Well, to be fair, when you use more fertilizer, things tend to grow.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jon Szanto For This Useful Post:

    Crazyorange (March 5th, 2016), reprieve (March 5th, 2016)

  5. #504
    Senior Member Marsilius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    800
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 611 Times in 323 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Woke up this morning and found this short lived thread about the Peneconomics blog:
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...-peneconomics/
    Somehow the signature at the bottom of the admin post closing the discussion seems paradoxical in context:
    "Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation."
    Fortibus es in ero

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Marsilius For This Useful Post:

    RNHC (March 11th, 2016)

  7. #505
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by lsmith42 View Post
    Wonder what the word "investment" means here?

    "I believe that the Admin Team made their point quite clear and, don't forget, they are not only Referees but also have an investment in this site."
    Smith-

    If you came seeking facts and not assumptions you must specifically ask for facts then wait for them to be presented for discussion.

    Since FPN Moderators have posted here and likely many more have read, perhaps an FPN Moderator will point out what their 'investment' in the site is beyond their time and reputation or at a minimum provide facts for you detailing the fractional ownership of the FPN LLC. I would suspect in many circles being an FPN Moderator would be beneficial, for example if I were actively selling Lamy Safari pen sets and I were (still?) a Moderator of the (original?) Lamy Forum I might have the appearance of more knowledge or credibility on the subject of Safari colors. Perhaps this is the 'invested in fpn' that you discuss.

    -boy

  8. #506
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    6,617
    Thanks
    7,796
    Thanked 11,042 Times in 4,011 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Invest.

    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Jon Szanto For This Useful Post:

    Crazyorange (March 5th, 2016)

  10. #507
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsilius View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Woke up this morning and found this short lived thread about the Peneconomics blog:
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...-peneconomics/
    Somehow the signature at the bottom of the admin post closing the discussion seems paradoxical in context:
    "Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation."
    Paradox is where truth is. Jesus: "I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    Freedom only exists within limits.

  11. #508
    Senior Member Marsilius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    800
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 611 Times in 323 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    Paradox is where truth is. Jesus: "I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    Freedom only exists within limits.
    Oooh, coincidentia oppositorum! Now we are in MY century! I'll go and get my Pseudo-Dionysius off the shelf.

    My point was that it seemed ironic to read a post about liberty in self-limitation from someone imposing an external limitation.

    And . . . just as in the coincidence of opposites, it is interesting to contemplate an inherently paradoxical boundary.
    Fortibus es in ero

  12. #509
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsilius View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    Paradox is where truth is. Jesus: "I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    Freedom only exists within limits.
    My point was that it seemed ironic to read a post about liberty in self-limitation from someone imposing an external limitation.
    Ah, I see. Good point. Sure. But I don't have a problem with a form of disciplinary response toward someone who fails to engage in proper self-discipline. I am a teacher.

  13. #510
    Senior Member Marsilius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    800
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 611 Times in 323 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marsilius View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    Paradox is where truth is. Jesus: "I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    Freedom only exists within limits.
    My point was that it seemed ironic to read a post about liberty in self-limitation from someone imposing an external limitation.
    Ah, I see. Good point. Sure. But I don't have a problem with a form of disciplinary response toward someone who fails to engage in proper self-discipline. I am a teacher.
    I am also a teacher. I always try to teach my students to self-discipline, which by college most of them seem to manage. Seriously, this is really a crucial razor's edge question for me every day. And the atmosphere at colleges is increasingly unfavorable to asserted discipline, so one treads with care. But admittedly, I fall more in the more freedom is good camp, at least as long as it is not abused, whatever that means.
    Fortibus es in ero

  14. #511
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsilius View Post

    I am also a teacher. I always try to teach my students to self-discipline, which by college most of them seem to manage. Seriously, this is really a crucial razor's edge question for me every day. And the atmosphere at colleges is increasingly unfavorable to asserted discipline, so one treads with care. But admittedly, I fall more in the more freedom is good camp, at least as long as it is not abused, whatever that means.
    I am a high school teacher, and this year I have grades 9, 11, and 12. I have to deal with a whole range of behaviors, and I also lean toward freedom. But sometimes, the worst behaviors occur at faculty meetings.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    ethernautrix (March 5th, 2016), Marsilius (March 5th, 2016)

  16. #512
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bagasengia
    Posts
    69
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    I wonder if there is any irony to the fact that the moderators involved are named Wim and RMN. Think about it...
    Sent from my constipated POS computer at work.

  17. #513
    Senior Member Marsilius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    800
    Thanks
    3,134
    Thanked 611 Times in 323 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    I am a high school teacher, and this year I have grades 9, 11, and 12. I have to deal with a whole range of behaviors, and I also lean toward freedom. But sometimes, the worst behaviors occur at faculty meetings.
    Too true! I have an acronym for faculty and committee meetings: SAMS (Sucks Away My Soul).
    Fortibus es in ero

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Marsilius For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (March 5th, 2016)

  19. #514
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Biber View Post
    I wonder if there is any irony to the fact that the moderators involved are named Wim and RMN. Think about it...
    Enlighten me please.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Farmboy For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (March 5th, 2016)

  21. #515
    Senior Member pengeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tampa,FL
    Posts
    446
    Thanks
    280
    Thanked 275 Times in 165 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Biber View Post
    I wonder if there is any irony to the fact that the moderators involved are named Wim and RMN. Think about it...

    Not going to say that it is Wim,but the "moderator" is from the Netherlands....



    John

  22. #516
    Senior Member pengeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tampa,FL
    Posts
    446
    Thanks
    280
    Thanked 275 Times in 165 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pengeezer View Post
    +1.

    Dr. Deans couldn't have said it any better and it was what I had suspected--that someone at MB pulled their petty stunt to
    cover their mistake and it blew up in their face. Creating their contradictory rules has already come to
    bite them in the hind leg--if they keep it up they won't have a leg to stand on.



    John
    I thought that this was no more persuasive than any other set of unattributed suggestions and innuendo on the internet--all without a single name or quotation or specific reference (except the username "Wim"). This is what I came away with as a thesis, in two parts, in my words: (1) "Maybe a few Montblanc customers who actually visit FPN and are bothered by what they don't actually see will be annoyed by this action by FPN admins to the point that they will purchase fewer Montblanc products." And (2) "I wish that FPN would not remove these types of posts." Well, ok.

    If you're looking for step-by-step facts and any admittance of guilt by MB,you'd be waiting a long time. MB can cover
    its backside by not saying anything and seeming indifferent--i.e.,leaving the reader(s) to make whatever inference they
    wish to make while letting the issue die. All I'm saying is that their creating pens for the sake of gross profit(LE pens of
    various types) will come back to hurt them,though I'm sure there will still be those that collect their pens just to sit and
    look at them and never use them while there will be those that don't like MB for their attitude. Point is,they created the
    issue and don't care to own up to it. Tells me I'm not that important...not a company I would buy anything from.



    John

  23. #517
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    540
    Thanks
    350
    Thanked 379 Times in 187 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Well nothing I hadn't already concluded in the article. I doubt MB or FPN have caused themselves any real harm. The ranks of those who've had FPN issues just grew by a couple. Reading the article the one point that stands out is that MB didn't really care all that much which, if correct, makes Wim's reaction look a bit "over the top". While my position ( on censorship and FPN) is well known I can understand Wim erring on the side of caution. Still MB "stuffed up" and as a result at least one person was banned from FPN, given what's known it seems that no action ( censorship, banning ) was required so I'd conclude the tactics Wim used as being heavy handed and unreasonable. I would suggest not the way to run a company.

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to HughC For This Useful Post:

    jar (March 5th, 2016), pengeezer (March 5th, 2016), RNHC (March 11th, 2016)

  25. #518
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    540
    Thanks
    350
    Thanked 379 Times in 187 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    I note from the comments attached to Deans article our old friend Chazz has emerged...as witty and loving as ever.

  26. #519
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by pengeezer View Post


    If you're looking for step-by-step facts and any admittance of guilt by MB,you'd be waiting a long time. MB can cover
    its backside by not saying anything and seeming indifferent--i.e.,leaving the reader(s) to make whatever inference they
    wish to make while letting the issue die. All I'm saying is that their creating pens for the sake of gross profit(LE pens of
    various types) will come back to hurt them,though I'm sure there will still be those that collect their pens just to sit and
    look at them and never use them while there will be those that don't like MB for their attitude. Point is,they created the
    issue and don't care to own up to it. Tells me I'm not that important...not a company I would buy anything from.



    John
    I am not looking for anything from MB. I was responding to the blog post that Dannzeman linked above. If there are any facts to be presented, they should have been presented by "Dr. Deans," author of the linked post. I consider it obligatory (in order to be persuasive) to provide the names and quotes and relevant facts to support the various accusations and claims made in that post.

    But no, since MB did not write that post, I do not expect anything from them. Honestly, I don't see even a smidgeon of a thing that merits a corporate apology. This all seems to be taken very personally by a handful of posters. If persons don't like the censorship at FPN, then post all the relevant facts here and have the conversation here. Who cares whether or not the conversation can be had there? If not there, then do it somewhere else. I don't really think that it is going to make much sales difference anywhere it is posted. Why doesn't Mr Deans post the list of MB products on this site? Why is it that Danzeman, who I believe works for a another pen distributor, was the one who linked Dr. Dean's recent post here? Why haven't one, or several, of you posted the info that was removed from FPN threads? Do others of you actually share Wim's concern about suits?

  27. #520
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,715
    Thanks
    4,749
    Thanked 4,654 Times in 1,132 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Why doesn't Mr Deans post the list of MB products on this site?
    Perhaps he doesn't want his posts to be subject to the whim of others? Unlikely here, I know.
    Perhaps he wants more traffic to his blog and to his podcast at Penaddict, which he mentions in the post?

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (March 6th, 2016)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •