On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

[KBeezie]

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I'm not a big fan of censorship, preferring to allow people to moderate their own language. Unfortunately there's a lot of people out there who have little or no self-control, and it's then that I start thinking that a little bit of external disciplining wouldn't go amiss quite frankly.

That's all I have to say about that.


As for community. What community?

This may be different in the US where some of the online members actually meet other members in person at shows and pen clubs and so on. However, that has never really been extended overseas - with the exception of Jon Szanto who very kindly donated a selection of ink samples.

Most of you know how hard it is for me to get access to any vintage pens in reasonable condition. Virtually every scrap that I have scavenged from eBay has had to be sent to the US for repair, significantly inflating the costs. How many of you have thought: "Hey, I know I guy overseas who was looking for one of these, I'll drop him a line, see if he is interested in buying this"?

My inbox is strangely bereft of such invitations.

Is the US "community" really a closed shop?



I have listed 2 mabie todds and a Wahl pen on the 'Bay. I am having to sell off pens just in order to be able to afford the constant shipping back and forth to restorers. I've asked time and again for US sellers (on eBay) to send the pens directly to Danny, but they will not do it.



It has not been a good day here. It's been frustrating as all get out. And I broke my toe.

[Chrissy]

Maybe they just think old people are crazy and tolerate it.

I don't believe that they do tolerate it.

[HughC]

I'm not a big fan of censorship, preferring to allow people to moderate their own language. Unfortunately there's a lot of people out there who have little or no self-control, and it's then that I start thinking that a little bit of external disciplining wouldn't go amiss quite frankly.

That's all I have to say about that.


As for community. What community?

This may be different in the US where some of the online members actually meet other members in person at shows and pen clubs and so on. However, that has never really been extended overseas - with the exception of Jon Szanto who very kindly donated a selection of ink samples.

Most of you know how hard it is for me to get access to any vintage pens in reasonable condition. Virtually every scrap that I have scavenged from eBay has had to be sent to the US for repair, significantly inflating the costs. How many of you have thought: "Hey, I know I guy overseas who was looking for one of these, I'll drop him a line, see if he is interested in buying this"?

My inbox is strangely bereft of such invitations.

Is the US "community" really a closed shop?



I have listed 2 mabie todds and a Wahl pen on the 'Bay. I am having to sell off pens just in order to be able to afford the constant shipping back and forth to restorers. I've asked time and again for US sellers (on eBay) to send the pens directly to Danny, but they will not do it.



It has not been a good day here. It's been frustrating as all get out. And I broke my toe.

I don't live in the US yet I can assure you I feel part of a bigger community. What is your interest? I'm more than happy to keep you in mind...not that I sell much. I also just got a link to an Aussie restorer with a lot of experience, I'll send you the email address backchannel...remind me if I forget !!

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That's very kind, Hugh. I was hacked off by Rick's recent sale of 3 mint golden pearl Vacumatics (not Rick's fault of course!). At $95 they seemed like a good price. I say seemed because I have absolutely no way of knowing how much these go for at pen shows, the only guide I have is eBay, where there are many greedy people expecting twice the price for user grade stuff, or so it often seems. I did have one, sent it to someone in the US and that's the last I saw of it. Lost money, lost pen, lost trust.

After 2 years of listening to US hobbyists talking about all the wonderful pens that they can lay their hands on, often without even trying, well, it gets wearisome. Although I don't seek credit for doing this, I have given away for free - 2 restored Skylines, 3 Parker 45s including a Kullock special, a Parker 51 demi, a Parker 51 Vacumatic, 2 Esterbrook Js, and a Mabie Todd Swan Minor, not to mention a few other things. I've given people information on stuff I have found buried unnoticed on eBay, and on occasion I have deferred bidding on something if I knew another member was already bidding.

All I have asked in the past, and have given up asking, is for contacts that can help me acquire what I was interested in for a fair price. You would think in a "community" this would not be so hard, yet I am at a loss why nobody has really made any effort to help in this way. Perhaps I am really that unlikeable?

At this time my involvement with vintage pens is pretty much dead in the water. I have more going out than coming in. Two Mabie Todds, a Wahl ringtop, and the last 2 Parker 45s are going. That leaves, in general use, just two vintage pens left, a Mabie Todd with a questionable stub nib and an Aurora 88P. I have started to turn my attention to modern pens simply to avoid having to compete for pens. As I am reduced to the dregs of eBay I have to factor in further shipping and restoration costs that leave me even less competitive.

At least with modern pens I can be reasonably assured that what I am getting has good QC or at least a warranty, and there is plenty in stock so I don't have to fight off anyone else.

That's where I am at right now, and my toe really hurts. Who would have thought a small bone break could be that annoying?

[HughC]

That's very kind, Hugh. I was hacked off by Rick's recent sale of 3 mint golden pearl Vacumatics (not Rick's fault of course!). At $95 they seemed like a good price. I say seemed because I have absolutely no way of knowing how much these go for at pen shows, the only guide I have is eBay, where there are many greedy people expecting twice the price for user grade stuff, or so it often seems. I did have one, sent it to someone in the US and that's the last I saw of it. Lost money, lost pen, lost trust.

After 2 years of listening to US hobbyists talking about all the wonderful pens that they can lay their hands on, often without even trying, well, it gets wearisome. Although I don't seek credit for doing this, I have given away for free - 2 restored Skylines, 3 Parker 45s including a Kullock special, a Parker 51 demi, a Parker 51 Vacumatic, 2 Esterbrook Js, and a Mabie Todd Swan Minor, not to mention a few other things. I've given people information on stuff I have found buried unnoticed on eBay, and on occasion I have deferred bidding on something if I knew another member was already bidding.

All I have asked in the past, and have given up asking, is for contacts that can help me acquire what I was interested in for a fair price. You would think in a "community" this would not be so hard, yet I am at a loss why nobody has really made any effort to help in this way. Perhaps I am really that unlikeable?

At this time my involvement with vintage pens is pretty much dead in the water. I have more going out than coming in. Two Mabie Todds, a Wahl ringtop, and the last 2 Parker 45s are going. That leaves, in general use, just two vintage pens left, a Mabie Todd with a questionable stub nib and an Aurora 88P. I have started to turn my attention to modern pens simply to avoid having to compete for pens. As I am reduced to the dregs of eBay I have to factor in further shipping and restoration costs that leave me even less competitive.

At least with modern pens I can be reasonably assured that what I am getting has good QC or at least a warranty, and there is plenty in stock so I don't have to fight off anyone else.

That's where I am at right now, and my toe really hurts. Who would have thought a small bone break could be that annoying?

Well on the bright side I look at that Kiwi "Trade Me" and all the sellers who won't ship out of NZ !! So all is not lost, they turn up some nice Aussie Sheaffers too. Hope you toe doesn't cause to much grief.

Regards
Hugh

[Empty_of_Clouds]

TradeMe is awful. Mostly user grade stuff or stuff that has been priced by someone with no brain. There is one decent seller but the range of pens is severely limited, mainly to the occasional Parker, a few Conway Stewarts (which I have no interest in), a few Onotos (same), and various odds and sods.

[Jon Szanto]

I have a funny feeling Dan was a little bit more up on banning repeat trolls by IP address or something. It should NOT be this easy for a miscreant to repeatedly set up new accounts over and over again. I'll ping the admin.

UPDATE: I had a good couple of emails with our admin regarding our recent... troubles. Sad to say, the person involved seems remarkably committed to malicious behavior, and there is only so much the community can ask of an admin. He will stay on top of it and delete accounts as they are created, but that age-old technique is really going to have to be used, by all of us. Yes, we have to exercise restraint, self-control, and Do The Adult. So from here on out, and specifically in this thread, when it comes to "that guy"...

Don't Feed the Troll.

Thank you.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I better take the goats back to the farm then.

[fountainpagan]

As a matter of fact, I got a beautiful Burgundy Sheaffer Snorkel that came yesterday. It looks great and oooohhh, does it write nice! I absolutely love it.

OH, please could you do a review with photos, and all?

[HughC]

TradeMe is awful.

*cough* *cough*

I picked up this Aust. PFM recently for a very good price.

IMG_1738.JPG

[HughC]

That's no way to treat a sleeping horse...

[KBeezie]

That's no way to treat a sleeping horse...

:P It's not a Norwegian Blue.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

TradeMe is awful.

*cough* *cough*

I picked up this Aust. PFM recently for a very good price.

IMG_1738.JPG

Good for you. I gave up looking at TradeMe long ago. I daresay I will miss the rare good thing.

[Hawk]

I have a funny feeling Dan was a little bit more up on banning repeat trolls by IP address or something. It should NOT be this easy for a miscreant to repeatedly set up new accounts over and over again. I'll ping the admin.

UPDATE: I had a good couple of emails with our admin regarding our recent... troubles. Sad to say, the person involved seems remarkably committed to malicious behavior, and there is only so much the community can ask of an admin. He will stay on top of it and delete accounts as they are created, but that age-old technique is really going to have to be used, by all of us. Yes, we have to exercise restraint, self-control, and Do The Adult. So from here on out, and specifically in this thread, when it comes to "that guy"...

Don't Feed the Troll.

Thank you.

I will comply. It will be difficult since this thread has been great entertainment for me with the original thread, the troll and the various branches that sprouted. It will be sad to see it slow down and end. However, there will be something to replace it....

[sweetnightingale]

As a matter of fact, I got a beautiful Burgundy Sheaffer Snorkel that came yesterday. It looks great and oooohhh, does it write nice! I absolutely love it.

OH, please could you do a review with photos, and all?

I can certainly do that. I'll work on it this week and get something up.

[dannzeman]

Dr. Deans has published the follow up: THE OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY OF MONTBLANC.

Enjoy.

[pengeezer]

+1.

Dr. Deans couldn't have said it any better and it was what I had suspected--that someone at MB pulled their petty stunt to
cover their mistake and it blew up in their face. Creating their contradictory rules has already come to
bite them in the hind leg--if they keep it up they won't have a leg to stand on.



John

[carlos.q]

Woke up this morning and found this short lived thread about the Peneconomics blog:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...-peneconomics/

[lsmith42]

Wonder what the word "investment" means here?

"I believe that the Admin Team made their point quite clear and, don't forget, they are not only Referees but also have an investment in this site."