On the Subject of FPN, Censorship, and Community

[Chrissy]

Oh, no. The point of the exercise is to see if the moderation is performed by all FPN moderators on a single consistent standard. If a violation is detected, all moderators should react in the same manner. If there isn't a consistent response but varies by who the moderator is and/or who the poster is, then FPN's moderation is not neutral but prejudicial and arbitrary.

I can categorically confirm that the standard is inconsistent and FPN moderators do not all behave in the same manner. It definitely varies by who the moderator is. I can give an example that happened to me a couple of years ago now.

I replied in response to an incorrect statement in a FPN thread that 'PIF's only happen on FPN'. Then I received a PM from a moderator saying that some posts had been hidden and that I should 'not come on FPN talking about other forums'. I sent a reply apologising that I thought I was merely remarking on an inaccuracy. That moderator then issued me with a warning for arguing with a moderator. When I PM'd Wim, he confirmed that the decision was harsh and I should not have been given a warning, but by the time he got around to removing it, it had already gone. (It was over Christmas and New Year)

Recently, I apparently asked something that someone didn't like, and was PM'd by a different moderator, just to say some posts had been deleted. No big deal or anything. I asked that moderator if I might respond, and was advised that was always acceptable. No warning was received from that moderator just for replying to their PM.

[dr.grace]

I find most Japanese pens in general to be less interesting and far more boring than the pens from Europe and the US.

I tend to agree except "far more" boring seem a bit hyperbolic. I do find them more boring with their too conservative designs but, on the other hand, I find many European pens overly ornate and busy. There is a handful of Japanese pens that I find interesting like the sleek integrated nibbed pens like Pilot M90 and carbon bodied pen from Tombow - and, of course, Nakaya pens.

Does anyone else think that discussing pens is a bit off-topic for this thread?

[Titivillus]

Maybe it's time to remember that it is just another pen forum and they are just pens.

As has been mentioned before it's their sandbox and they can do whatever they want.

I once had a VP at a company I worked for say to a large group "if you don't like it you don't have to work here". Same can be said for FPN if you don't like how it is being run then don't go there. If a manufacturer starts pressuring this site then it should be discussed.

[mhosea]

The reason this thread persists has nothing to do with FPN and everything to do with the way we are treating each other here.

People should respect what they don't know and give each other the benefit of the doubt. Instead, there's a lot of "poking" going on.

My sense is that most perspectives presented here are partially correct. I feel a pang of empathy with those who have received bad treatment from FPN when I hear it suggested that they must have brought it on themselves. In some cases maybe they did and others not. Conversely, the expectation that censorship should not occur on FPN or that FPN should not simply acquiesce to the requests of businesses reflects a set of ideals that may not be compatible with the intended purposes of FPN.

[TSherbs]

I find most Japanese pens in general to be less interesting and far more boring than the pens from Europe and the US.

I tend to agree except "far more" boring seem a bit hyperbolic. I do find them more boring with their too conservative designs but, on the other hand, I find many European pens overly ornate and busy. There is a handful of Japanese pens that I find interesting like the sleek integrated nibbed pens like Pilot M90 and carbon bodied pen from Tombow - and, of course, Nakaya pens.

Does anyone else think that discussing pens is a bit off-topic for this thread?

After 36 pages? You pick out this little bit of fresh air?

[RNHC]

Does anyone else think that discussing pens is a bit off-topic for this thread?

You are correct, of course. I got sidetracked. I blame jar.

[pengeezer]

The reason this thread persists has nothing to do with FPN and everything to do with the way we are treating each other here.

People should respect what they don't know and give each other the benefit of the doubt. Instead, there's a lot of "poking" going on.

My sense is that most perspectives presented here are partially correct. I feel a pang of empathy with those who have received bad treatment from FPN when I hear it suggested that they must have brought it on themselves. In some cases maybe they did and others not. Conversely, the expectation that censorship should not occur on FPN or that FPN should not simply acquiesce to the requests of businesses reflects a set of ideals that may not be compatible with the intended purposes of FPN.

I don't think that it's a matter of "just don't go there" or censorship shouldn't occur. Some have already
stated that they brought on censorship themselves and banning was deserved. Also too--as has
been pointed out--it is Wim's site to do with as he pleases. If he chooses to be unequal in his dealings
with members or place greater emphasis on his business dealings than his members,that is his choice.
Point is,I think the majority here do care enough that we don't want to see a newbie to the hobby
get blasted out of the water for something that won't be explained to them or have their posts deleted
and no answer given. So while we "don't go there",we let them know that all isn't that it's cracked up
to be.



John

[TSherbs]

Pengeezer, do you really think that many people come here first before joining FPN? I don't think that this thread was started as a warning for newcomers about FPN moderation. It was begun as a link to a blog that called FPN "craven" and "morally wrong" and both FPN and Montblanc "stupid." The post is a screed against FPN and is not couched in terms of a warning to potential new members. Potential new members of FPN will never read it, and very few of them will ever come here first and read it. I understand that you might want to warn some people. Not sure that posting criticism of FPN here at fpgeeks does anything more than stoke fires of embers of disappointment and resentment already present. And the brief pleasure of venting. And some entertainment for the lurkers.

[mhosea]

Point is,I think the majority here do care enough that we don't want to see a newbie to the hobby
get blasted out of the water for something that won't be explained to them or have their posts deleted
and no answer given. So while we "don't go there",we let them know that all isn't that it's cracked up
to be.

It was not my intention to discount a single point made above, rather to observe that there is hardly a point to be made that has not been made and discussed. We have these cathartic FPN threads periodically, and a little bit might be a healthy thing. It becomes unseemly for FPG, I think, when they go on for too long. We don't want FPG to be characterized by them. That is a danger that I see if we indulge in this sort of thing for too long.

[Freddie]

I want to Thank All the participantsfor a very interesting read.

Fred

Eight Bells and All Is Well

[SIR]

Pengeezer, do you really think that many people come here first before joining FPN? I don't think that this thread was started as a warning for newcomers about FPN moderation. It was begun as a link to a blog that called FPN "craven" and "morally wrong" and both FPN and Montblanc "stupid." The post is a screed against FPN and is not couched in terms of a warning to potential new members. Potential new members of FPN will never read it, and very few of them will ever come here first and read it. I understand that you might want to warn some people. Not sure that posting criticism of FPN here at fpgeeks does anything more than stoke fires of embers of disappointment and resentment already present. And the brief pleasure of venting. And some entertainment for the lurkers.

We all understand very well that it is Wim & co's game and they're the referees, but all we are saying is "the referee's a wanker!!".
ok?

[pengeezer]

Pengeezer, do you really think that many people come here first before joining FPN? I don't think that this thread was started as a warning for newcomers about FPN moderation. It was begun as a link to a blog that called FPN "craven" and "morally wrong" and both FPN and Montblanc "stupid." The post is a screed against FPN and is not couched in terms of a warning to potential new members. Potential new members of FPN will never read it, and very few of them will ever come here first and read it. I understand that you might want to warn some people. Not sure that posting criticism of FPN here at fpgeeks does anything more than stoke fires of embers of disappointment and resentment already present. And the brief pleasure of venting. And some entertainment for the lurkers.

Do people come here before joining FPN? They may,they may not(personally,I think they do....after that,
it's up to them what they do.). I do know this: If in a controversial subject you show that you care,
they are more apt to listen to what you have to say.



John

[Kratos]

My personal experience. FPN is very bias. Bias of who and what company you can express your negative experience on. I closed my account because of that(still beign a noob). A lot of the information I got from FPN was very bias and completely wrong. I learned this, after purchasing pens from organizations they recommended. I don't know if these organizations are FPN's biggest sponsors or not. Beware of their recommendations.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Titivillus]

I have to say that FPN soured me to pen collecting for years, and about 9 and I have only started back up recently. I am a little PTSD....

[Scrawler]

I have to say that FPN soured me to pen collecting for years, and about 9 and I have only started back up recently. I am a little PTSD....

Welcome back. I have missed you.