Solid Gold Stub Nibs?

[jeffraffe]

Recently, I have come across #6 14k and 18k gold 1.1mm stub nibs while browsing for nib replacements. These are made by Bock and Jowo respectively. I wonder how they compare with standard steel stubs, but have had no luck finding a review. Could anyone please share their experience with these gold stubs?

I have used Jowo and Bock steel stubs, and would love to know how the steel differ from the gold. As gold nibs are typically somewhat flexible, I am also curious if writing with moderate pressure on the gold stubs would result in wider than desired line widths. Some of the photos I have seen also look like these gold stubs are tipped, where as the Jowo 1.1mm steel and the Kaweco (Bock) 2.3mm I have used are not tipped at all. Is this the case?

Any input is much appreciated!

Here are a couple images for reference:


14k Bock stub (branded) photo credit: namisu KS


14k Bock stub (unbranded) photo credit: the golden nib


18k Jowo stub (unbranded) photo credit: FPN "tinta"


steel Jowo stub (FC branded & photo credit)


steel Bock stub (Kaweco branded) photo: cult pens

*no affliations with any name mentioned above

[jar]

Recently, I have come across #6 14k and 18k gold 1.1mm stub nibs while browsing for nib replacements. These are made by Bock and Jowo respectively. I wonder how they compare with standard steel stubs, but have had no luck finding a review. Could anyone please share their experience with these gold stubs?

I have used Jowo and Bock steel stubs, and would love to know how the steel differ from the gold. As gold nibs are typically somewhat flexible, I am also curious if writing with moderate pressure on the gold stubs would result in wider than desired line widths. Some of the photos I have seen also look like these gold stubs are tipped, where as the Jowo 1.1mm steel and the Kaweco (Bock) 2.3mm I have used are not tipped at all. Is this the case?

Any input is much appreciated!



*no affliations with any name mentioned above

A few corrections. Gold nibs are not typically somewhat flexible. Oh, they will all flex at least once but often that is the total extent of their flex life. Gold nibs almost always need to be tipped since gold (particularly 14K and higher) is really soft and would wear away as you watched. Steel can be made much harder and wear resistant.

[mhosea]

Recently, I have come across #6 14k and 18k gold 1.1mm stub nibs while browsing for nib replacements. These are made by Bock and Jowo respectively. I wonder how they compare with standard steel stubs, but have had no luck finding a review. Could anyone please share their experience with these gold stubs?

I have used Jowo and Bock steel stubs, and would love to know how the steel differ from the gold. As gold nibs are typically somewhat flexible, I am also curious if writing with moderate pressure on the gold stubs would result in wider than desired line widths. Some of the photos I have seen also look like these gold stubs are tipped, where as the Jowo 1.1mm steel and the Kaweco (Bock) 2.3mm I have used are not tipped at all. Is this the case?

As Jar notes, all gold nibs must be tipped (to last). If you come across a solid gold stub nib that isn't tipped, it's because the tipping on a (probably regular point) nib was damaged and was ground off. It writes but wears down. Because steel is harder, steel stub nibs may or may not be tipped, but yes, the JoWo and Bock steel factory stubs are untipped.

Whether a nib is flexible in the sense that you can use it to generate significant line variation depends on the material, thickness, and design. Because gold nibs are usually pretty thin, they are usually easier to deform temporarily with pressure on the page, but the way they are bent may or may not result in the tines separating much, and how much deformation they will take before they are "sprung" varies a lot. As a rule, JoWo and Bock nibs are not very "flexy" in the sense that they deform easily and generate much line variation when they do. That is to say, they resist deforming, don't generate very much line variation when they do (relatively speaking), and the 18K ones get thrown out of adjustment (or are sprung) fairly easily when they are pressed into service for more line variation than they were designed for.

I haven't tried the solid gold factory stubs from Bock or JoWo, but based on my experience with the Fine, Medium, and Broad points, I suspect the 14K Bock gold nibs are relatively stiff. They might feel a little "softer" than a steel nib. They should make great stubs. 18K JoWo nibs are less stiff (feel significantly softer) and will widen the line slightly under pressure, but using them that way will probably throw them out of adjustment. It's better to take what you get with normal writing pressure, which is just very slight variation. I've no doubt they can also be great stubs, but for me the softness can be more curse than blessing. I prefer hard/stiff nibs in my stubs and italics because softness coupled with any error in the rotation of the pen twists the tines and puts the inside corner of the tipping in position to dig into the paper. I think a more skilled user would not be disadvantaged by this, but I am.

[tandaina]

Yeah I'll just reiterate again, modern gold nibs are not flexible. Some of them may be a little soft or "bouncy" but that's not the same thing and forcing them to "flex" will eventually spring the tines. I have some specially made modern gold nibs that were made to be soft, they give the feel of bounce while writing that some folks (like me) find very comfortable. But I do not ask them to give me line variation as they aren't designed to do that. Most modern gold nibs are hard as nails so I would not go buying a gold stub hoping for flex on top of stub variation.

Most modern gold nibs are basically just pretty, they're no better or worse than modern steel nibs. (But even with antique nibs one should be careful generalizing. I have a steel nib that dates to just before WWII or just after the start that is a wet noodle. Most flexible antique nib I own, own a gold nib of the same era that's a total nail, no give at all. Time for the "gold is more flexible" myth to die.

(I'm not a fan of any factory stubs, far better to get a regular tipped nib and have an expert grind it for you. I will not use untipped steel nibs, they're like writing with a blunt stick and who wants to do that?)

[Jon Szanto]

Ad nauseum: Gold ≠ flex.

Thin gold nibs, in the proper shape, can give you a flexible nib, but it is the design and crafting of the nib that does it. The material influences how well it will flex and, especially, how well it will spring back. I have Sheaffer solid gold nibs going back to the 1920's that could be used as a leather punch.

So, you know, let's put this concept to bed.

[mhosea]

Having said that, I don't think we should get too side-tracked on that issue. IMHO, solid gold Bock and JoWo nibs do yield a different "feel" than steel Bock and JoWo nibs. All other things being equal, the gold ones are "softer" in that they yield a bit when writing and inadvertently applying a little more pressure here and there. There is some effect on line variation, insignificant compared to "true flex", but existent. I can get home 5 times quicker by driving than walking, but that doesn't mean when I'm walking I'm standing still. These non-flex gold nibs aren't "flexy" in the sense that we usually mean it, but that doesn't mean they offer no line variation over their steel counterparts at all. For aficionados, nuances can still be important.

Now, as I said, I don't happen to appreciate the particular limited and nuanced form of softness that JoWo 18K nibs offer when I am writing with a stub, but I tend to like it with Fine, Medium, and Broad nibs. It's not the same as the corresponding steel JoWo nib.

[Jon Szanto]

Well said, Mike. Few things in life are absolute, and I agree that there can be a softness imparted. I mostly commented because of the very common misconception that every gold nib aspires to flex like a noodle.

I think I've been spending too much time on reddit.

[jeffraffe]

Thank you all for your responses and clarifications. I guess really meant to say that they are bouncy and the tines spread when writing with pressure, not flexible in the sense of vintage flex.

I have only had experience with Parker 18k gold nibs and find them quite soft. How do they compare with the Bock and the Jowo?

[Scrawler]

Is there a problem with stub nibs being a little flexible? I have several (Waterman, Swan) flex stub nibs and I find them delightful as signature nibs. They open a little and close as the natural pressure of the hand moves over the page adding very distinctive character to signatures on contracts and legal documents.

[jeffraffe]

That is actually what I am interested in finding out. If they have a slight give, to what extent, and are the effects dramatically noticeable? THANK YOU!

[Scrawler]

That is actually what I am interested in finding out. If they have a slight give, to what extent, and are the effects dramatically noticeable? THANK YOU!

Ah I see. Well this is a matter of personal taste. I like it and take advantage of it. In days gone by when people signed by hand, it made a difference. The 3 dimensional movement of the nib more accurately reflected an individual persons writing style, so the spread of the nib at any given part of the strokes plus the broadening and narrowing as the point twisted across the paper gave a more personal look to a signature, and it was easier to identify a forgery. Some people call these "signature stubs". If this is a quality you are specifically looking for then you may find modern stub less giving and you may have to get the nib modified. Alternatively contact members such as Cob, who is a Mabie Todd expert and tell him you are specifically looking for a "Signature Stub".

My house is in disorder while it is being renovated, so I can not create examples for you right now, but when I have my life back in order I will create writing samples from a Waterman Conqueror with a #5 keyhole stub, and a Mabie-Todd 60/20 with #2 signature nib to show you what it looks like.