Definition of Christian

[Chip]

I was raised a Catholic but I haven't been to a church in a long while. As I read and learn, I started to question and I no longer believe in divinity of Jesus. I still believe in God. What does that make me?

This is the original post on this thread. The notion that it is limited to defining one's belief in Jesus is your interpretation.

[Chuck Naill]

Being a Christian and not an apprentice is common in the modern American experience. The problem comes from trying to explain this to atheists or disinterested on a public forum.

Historically, the first followers were disciples. One has to consider.

Essentially, Jesus said anyone could, upon changing the way they think, get involved in what God is doing. Those interested will. Those not interested will not.

The OP said he no longer believed in the deity of Jesus. That could be the best place to be with Jesus. Let him reveal himself.

[Chip]

[Chuck Naill]

Why would someone decide to follow Jesus and become his apprentice?

It has been interesting to read Eugene's Peterson's The Message lately asking this question. I've made some observations; the Apostles audience were those who had decided to follow Jesus. These early students encountered various trials and roadblocks. The path was "a long walk in the same direction" to borrow a phrase from Peterson.

Paul was not directly trying to end Roman rule or to change Rome into becoming Christian nation. When he addresses various practices, he was talking to disciples, not everyone in Ephesus.

Discipleship is a lifelong pursuit. If done right, it's a strategic decision to live one's life as Jesus would if he were you. This isn't going to be a "cake walk". That others might think you're not acting like a Christian will occur, but the purpose is not to be popular.

[Chip]

. . .it's a strategic decision to live one's life as Jesus would if he were you.

So how does getting married and having children fit in?

Would Jesus own a gun?

[Chuck Naill]

. . .it's a strategic decision to live one's life as Jesus would if he were you.

So how does getting married and having children fit in?

Would Jesus own a gun?

Good question, Chip. Jesus was not opposed to marriage. Marriage is an option for Kingdom living. Scripture is very supportive of marriage and children. It is my present opinion that as human we carry the image of God, born or in utero. What abortion does it destroy the body, but not the soul. Since you mentioned Native American spirituality, you might consider doing some research to see how they thought about the soul and body.

I don’t understand the gun question. Since his profession was one where he worked with his hands to produce carpentry services, he would have naturally owned tools of the trade. If you are asking if he carried a knife for protection, there is no scriptural support. We do know from scripture that Peter carried a blade. Since he was a fisherman, a blade would have been essential.

[RobJohnson]

. . .it's a strategic decision to live one's life as Jesus would if he were you.

So how does getting married and having children fit in?

Would Jesus own a gun?

A question in church circles a few years ago was 'would Jesus drive a Ferrari'.

[TSherbs]

I've never understood the value of "WWJD?" It leads to such farcical answers (some of which are fun, admittedly). And it certainly doesn't address the question of the OP.

I think Jesus would drive a hybrid, and so should all Christians!

[Chip]

Wouldn't Jesus ride a bike?

[Chuck Naill]

What we can know about Jesus is what he said and did, the blind see, the lame walk, and the poor hear good news. Even today when you hear, change the way you think because the one who rules the universe is available to run you, we each have an opportunity.

[TSherbs]

Wouldn't Jesus ride a bike?

Quite the hipster.

I imagine Jesus used floo powder, or he apparated.

Or traveled via sewerage:

"Feeling exceptionally foolish, Harry clambered into the toilet. He knew at once that he had done the right thing; though he appeared to be standing in water, his shoes, feet and robes remained quite dry. He reached up, pulled the chain, and next moment had zoomed down a short chute, emerging out of a fireplace into the Ministry of Magic. "

Now that's impressive, and courageous!

[Chuck Naill]

"The giggles of fools are like the crackling of twigs Under the cooking pot. And like smoke. "

[Chip]

. . .the one who rules the universe is available to run you, we each have an opportunity.

What, like he's my controller and I'm the spy? Or I'm a toy choo-choo and he's the transformer? Or I'm a hooker and he's the pimp?

Could you explain why Jesus needs black holes? There seem to be quite a few.

[TSherbs]

What, like he's my controller and I'm the spy? Or I'm a toy choo-choo and he's the transformer? Or I'm a hooker and he's the pimp?.

According to Jonathan Edwards, we are spiders hanging by the barest of gossamer threads over the pits of hell, not an iota deserving of God's slightest mercies. He must have been a great dinner conversationalist.

[Chip]

From "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinner...f_an_Angry_God

We read it in freshman Lit. Guy was nuts.

[TSherbs]

Although very different in purpose, elements of that sermon always remind me of the power of the imagery in Blake's "Marriage of Heaven and Hell." The fervor of the 18th century! Blake was/is called nuts, too.

[TSherbs]

From "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinner...f_an_Angry_God

We read it in freshman Lit. Guy was nuts.

I actually taught passages of this to high school kids when we were covering "Puritan" thinking. Edwards wasn't strictly Puritan, but he was a later famous incarnation of some of the thinking. We had some fun with the passages, even sometimes trying to write more frightening metaphors about powerlessness and control. That was one way to defang the sick, abusive earnestness: turn it into parody.

Apparently, Edwards also "converted" a lot of people that day. It is a good lesson in the power of propaganda through fear and intimidation.

[Chuck Naill]

After years of consideration, the message boils down to "first seek the Kingdom of God and his righteousness". His righteous is the right condition of the heart. The heart can be wicked and give a deceptive appearance of goodness. Jesus said that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the religious leaders, you cannot participate in the Kingdom of God.

Becoming an apprentice is not just going to heaven when you die, but life today. Living in true companionship within the Trinitarian Community.

How does someone consider these things? We all have a private life, and we know who we are in private that we keep to ourselves. We know if we are properly connected or not. For those interested, the invitation is available. For some it is good news and for others foolishness.

[Chuck Naill]

I don't know this for a fact, but Edwards and others who preached these type of sermons probably led to the current trends among American Evangelicals. You've probably heard someone say, Christians aren't perfect, just saved.

Being saved from hell was not the message Jesus presented to his students. It was that the power of God was now available to anyone and everyone so they could experience an abundant life of peace, love, joy, and hope.

I have experienced American Revivalists and how pushy most of them can be. If one wants to be an apprentice, they should act intentionally. Any scare tactics will not produce lasting results just like slick sales people don't result in satisfied customers.

[Chuck Naill]

“The essential thing ‘in heaven and earth’ is that there should be a long obedience in the same direction; there thereby results, and has always resulted in the long run, something which has made life worth living.” Friedrick Nietzshe

I just received Eugene Peterson's book, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction".

We might have been a cowboy at some time or a fiddle player at another time. Who are we today? Are we on a long obedience of anything or worth?