Definition of Christian

[Chuck Naill]

Just a little tongue in cheek pedantry, but it's relevant in this topic's context.

The only record of what Jesus taught was recorded by someone else, so we get it all secondhand. The children's game telephone is a good example of the problems with relaying information from one person to the next.

Paul claims to have met the spirit of Jesus, who spoke to him. In this case, again we only have Paul telling us what Jesus said.

Then you add centuries of men determining what was "authentic", what should be added to the Canon, and what should be omitted (sometimes under punishment of death). Different denominations have different Bibles, and I'm not talking about King James or New International. Books are added or omitted in cases.

It's problematic, to say the least.

Yes, this is what I figured you meant, and it is true. That said, we accept the philosophies of Socrates, Plato, and others from the same era. It can be just as much a problem to not accept as to accept if it is done blindly. The atheist uses just as much faith as I do.

There are two factors at play, what Jesus said and the experience of those following him. The latter is what allowed the Jewish sect to expand into the Gentile nations. No one is going to follow something that doesn't produce the desired results, answer the questions that mankind has always asked, and what it means to live a good life. Each of the NT books addresses these questions.

Imagine a world where loving your neighbor as you love yourself existed? However, that is only part of the good news. We might want to love our neighbor but lack the power to consistently do so. This is where the Spirit of God comes into play.

Christianity has become for many Evangelicals as only the forgiveness of sin and going to Heaven when you die. For many Christians, their experiences do not match the experiences depicted in the New Testament. This has led to asking what would Jesus do and Christians are not perfect, just forgiven. These ideas have not led to transformed lives where righteousness, peace, and joy are experienced.

The message of Jesus was to offer a new option. The Kingdom of God is now readily available to those who would change their minds, turn around, and reconsider. This is echoed with the Apostolic writers and later writers. This idea is echoed in the Lord's Prayer. If this is a valid idea, the prospect would then ask, how. How to enter into this new option. The answer is to become a disciple. I could apply this to playing a musical instrument, becoming a marksman, or learning a new skill. We enter into a type of mentoring program and learn from a master. What is fueling this endeavor is human intent.

If you were to disciple a new student in how to play a guitar, you would expect them to do what you asked them to do because you know if they do so they will experience success. This is why Jesus said to teach the apprentices to do what he said to do. Think about the modern Evangelical institution and how many of them are actually attempting to obey the simple, straight forward practice of living so that you love others as you love yourself or to be a good neighbor. It is not even a consideration.

Just as Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery, I cannot condemn the LGBQ community or drag performers. Yes, Evangelical leaders treat these people with distain. What Jesus did was to offer them the Kingdom of God. This is what I am trying to do here. What we are on the inside is more important than the outside. It is a life long process.

I will do as you say later next week when I have time to review what has been posted on this thread.

[Chuck Naill]

I’ve reviewed the first three pages. The discussion seemed to center around labels and what members remember from creeds and denominations. I think you introduced Universalism.

I’ll continue, but this so far, using something we are familiar with, it’s like discussing music genres and guitar strings with a new guitar student. They will sort these issues out later.

The concept of being an apprentice and having a mentor should resonate with most readers here. This is the idea I hope to advance.

[TSherbs]

..., I cannot condemn the LGBQ community or drag performers.

You smear them with suggestions of wrongdoing repeatedly. You ask me to defend their motives (assuming that they are evil or injurious) repeatedly. You ask the law to restrain them in ways you do not ask others to be restrained. You repeatedly question their outlook on life and even suggest that they don't even know who they themselves are. You have done these things repeatedly on this thread and other threads.

You're a Christian hypocrite liar.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m sure I am, Ted. If I must choose between protecting children over LGBQ influence or Drag performances with children, I’ll protect the children. I would be as vocal if the influence were heterosexual groups.

Jesus didn’t tell the women to keep on practicing adultery. He did admonish his students not to trip up little ones. This is the standard I aspire toward, not having your standards or praise.

Now, back to the topic.

[dneal]

..., I cannot condemn the LGBQ community or drag performers.

You smear them with suggestions of wrongdoing repeatedly. You ask me to defend their motives (assuming that they are evil or injurious) repeatedly. You ask the law to restrain them in ways you do not ask others to be restrained. You repeatedly question their outlook on life and even suggest that they don't even know who they themselves are. You have done these things repeatedly on this thread and other threads.

You're a Christian hypocrite liar.

“Conversation”

[TSherbs]

I’m sure I am, Ted. If I must choose between protecting children over LGBQ influence or Drag performances with children, I’ll protect the children.

Only your prejudice makes you think that you must make this "choice." That is your judgment at work. You constantly feel there is a need to choose to defend children from these things that you perceive as threats. That perception is your judgment at work, that judgment that you just falsely bragged (lied) that you don't have.

I am happy to discuss the topic, but as I said, each time you lie I am going to point it out. Faux Christian righteousness and superiority deserves no better.

[Chip]

Here's a summary of massacres, wars, murders, tortures, and other atrocities by christians since the early days.

By any standard, it seems to be a violent and murderous exercise of "faith."

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/victims/

If you don't have the guts to read it, then don't comment. Check?

[Chuck Naill]

I’m sure I am, Ted. If I must choose between protecting children over LGBQ influence or Drag performances with children, I’ll protect the children.

Only your prejudice makes you think that you must make this "choice." That is your judgment at work. You constantly feel there is a need to choose to defend children from these things that you perceive as threats. That perception is your judgment at work, that judgment that you just falsely bragged (lied) that you don't have.

I am happy to discuss the topic, but as I said, each time you lie I am going to point it out. Faux Christian righteousness and superiority deserves no better.

Yes, I do make judgements. I choose to drive the speed limit, but those drivers that do not, I do not despise them. I try to stay out of their way. People that carry guns, I do not hate them, but I do stay out of their way. It is the same with those for whom I have some responsibility. I would not take any child to a library drag book read. Others can do what seems best for those for whom they are accountable. I would not take a child of mine to a drag book read in order to appear acceptable to some groups of people.

No, I have not found that you want to discuss the topic, Ted. You want to control the narrative, and that is fine. It is a free forum and not moderated, but you cannot define what the scriptures plainly say about what Jesus taught and what he said for his present and future students or apprentices to do.

I will continue to post topics of interest. I suggest you do the same.

That some people calling themselves Christians have done horrible acts does not contradict the words of Jesus. Discussing those horrible historical acts is not my interest. My interest is New Testament Discipleship.

[Chuck Naill]

We had a wonderful weekend off the grid. A prominent group was conducting a fly-fishing introductory class and it made me think about discipleship. I mentioned to the folks I was with about it and they agreed that conducting a discipship class the same as a fish fishing class was a good idea. I intend to explore the idea.

Several things came to mind,
1. The people in the class wanted to be in attendance.
2. They were attentive and practiced the skills introduced.
3. The leaders were just people who were a little further along in the process.
4. The leaders mentioned another class for those interested.

[Chuck Naill]

@dneal, I followed your suggestion and read some older posts. It seems the topic evolved into discussions about how Christianity relates to other religions and some discussion about books and videos.

From the OP, "I was raised a Catholic but I haven't been to a church in a long while. As I read and learn, I started to question and I no longer believe in divinity of Jesus. I still believe in God. What does that make me?"

My experience with a typical Catholic person is that they are not a group who reads the scriptures for themselves. I am sure there are exemptions. In fact, when I was growing up as a Baptist, the members didn't read the Bible probably because of the KJV version was difficult to understand and the reading skills were poor. The members depended on the preacher to tell them what to do and think. I remember being introduced to the NASB version and being better able to read for myself. I was enlightening and I immediately noticed that much of how I was raised was tradition and not rooted in the scriptures.

Ultimately I was able to shake the high school English teacher's atheism and recognized it for what it was. This didn't occur because I had a teacher or a member of a church. It was because I simply read the text for myself.

If I were to relate this to fly fishing, it would be similar to a person who had the finest equipment available, but were unable to show the skills necessary to fly fish. They just carry the poles around like Baptists carry their Bibles. Ultimately some would, like the OP, decide that fly fishing is a myth, but continue ask if they can be considered a fly fisherman even if they no longer believe in fly fishing.

Then some, like Chip, tells them he's read that some fly fishermen have done great evil in the world by wearing felt soles. Some, he might add, are pedophiles. The he would post photos of him fly fishing. Ted would say he doesn't believe Trout exist and so those who are interested in fly fishing are wasting their time.

[TSherbs]

Yes, I do make judgements..

Then you admit to your bragging lie.

[TSherbs]

...Ted would say he doesn't believe Trout exist and so those who are interested in fly fishing are wasting their time.

Another stupid lie.

[Chuck Naill]

Not at all. You've shown yourself to make statements, not rooted in anything but opinion, as factually true.

[dneal]

Not at all. You've shown yourself to make statements, not rooted in anything but opinion, as factually true.

What's really funny is how many times he posts that he is no longer going to participate in a thread, only to come back and threaten it again as he realizes he can't substantiate any of his [new] declarations of fact - which seem to arise from a weird belief in the ability read the hearts and minds of people he has never met.

[TSherbs]

Not at all. .

Yes, it is a lie. Whenever you try to summarize my thinking or points, you err. You have not been reading or interpreting correctly. As I note, stop trying to summarize my thinking. You don't know what you are talking about.

[dneal]

Not at all. .

Yes, it is a lie. Whenever you try to summarize my thinking or points, you err. You have not been reading or interpreting correctly. As I note, stop trying to summarize my thinking. You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL!!! This from the guy who selectively quotes out of context and then interprets it to mean the opposite?

Somebody doesn't know what they are talking about, but the total lack of self-awareness or reflection is amazing to watch.

[Chuck Naill]

Summarize your thinking? You are an atheist who thinks the soul is a myth trying to participate in a Christian definition discussion.

I can see this idea exemplified in your posts. It’s invaded your thinking. It’s why you can’t bring yourself to support an unborn child under 20 weeks. You’ve soothed yourself in thinking they don’t have a soul, so nothing lost.

It’s why you think you have the moral high ground supporting reading time with Drag Queens over children.

No one is making stuff up about you. I read your posts and assume you’re serious.

[TSherbs]

No one is making stuff up about you.

That entire bit about fishing is made up. And "wasting one's time"...that's utter bullshit. It is not wasting one's time to seek spiritual life, and I would never say so. You just make shit up to smear your perceived antagonists.

Again, stop making crap up. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Chuck Naill]

How can there be a spiritual life if the spirit doesn’t exist?

The problem isn’t anyone making stuff up. Maybe you blacked out and don’t remember.

[Chip]

Why are christians, as a group, so dangerous and violent?

A few thoughts: The christ myth emphasizes his victimhood, at the hands of the Jewish elite and then the Romans. The most prevalent icon is of Jesus on the cross. Thus, people who profess christianity tend to characterize themselves as victims, even when they are aggressors, colonizers, and oppressors.

This delusion of victimhood leads to fantasies of revenge, retribution, and "taking back" what has been stolen, etc.

A present example of this is the way Trump's posture as a victim appeals so strongly to white christian nationalists, evangelicals, and other devout believers.