Definition of Christian

[jar]

Well then to answer you I personally have trouble terming groups like the Seventh Day Adventists and others who say that Christ was a "Godly Man" and not God incarnate ( as well as the earlier Arien (sic?) and Gnostic heresies etc) as Christians because it goes against what Christ taught about himself. To me they are like Muslims who hold Jesus as a Prophet but not as divine. Theologians can argue about this until the cows come home but to me you have believe in the Trinity to be a Christian.

Except of course that the whole concept of the trinity evolved and is still evolving. In the earliest versions of the Creeds the Holy Spirit was simply missing and for most of the existence of the Trinity concept it was still thought of as three separate individuals; a dualist position revolving around who they were and then what they were.

And of course almost every single one of the thousands of Chapters of Club Christian has their own definition in their Club Chapter ByLaws of what a Christian is.

[matteob]

In answer to dneal about Jesus and being the Son of God Matthew 16.16 when Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ and son of the living God and Jesus replies: "Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah, fleah and blood has not revealed this to you but my father in Heaven."

John 8.23 too where Jesus claims to be above and not of this world. Ultimately though one cannot come to God, to Jesus through rationality. One has to either earnestly seek, be called, and have Jesus and the Spirit manifest themselves. I have had this, I am lucky and blessed. I don't want to preach but this is my stance.I look to the manifold promises in the Old Testament Torah and see them manifested in Jesus.

These beliefs have seen many Christians die in many cases is the cruelest ways human minds can think of rather than recant their faith. it is good enough for me. To really get to the bottom of the questions you ask though you would need to argue with a theologian which I am not

[SIR]

IMG_20170107_191731.jpg

A congregant at one of my local protestant churches made the point, in reference to comparative protestantism, that Jesus was antireligious; so, anyone who aligns themself with any collective belief can't be a 'Christian', right?

[matteob]

Good point I would certainly say Jesus railed against the hypocrisy of the religious establishment and sadly a lot hasn't changed.

[dneal]

In answer to dneal about Jesus and being the Son of God Matthew 16.16 when Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ and son of the living God and Jesus replies: "Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah, fleah and blood has not revealed this to you but my father in Heaven."

John 8.23 too where Jesus claims to be above and not of this world. Ultimately though one cannot come to God, to Jesus through rationality. One has to either earnestly seek, be called, and have Jesus and the Spirit manifest themselves. I have had this, I am lucky and blessed. I don't want to preach but this is my stance.I look to the manifold promises in the Old Testament Torah and see them manifested in Jesus.

These beliefs have seen many Christians die in many cases is the cruelest ways human minds can think of rather than recant their faith. it is good enough for me. To really get to the bottom of the questions you ask though you would need to argue with a theologian which I am not

I said "I don't recall Jesus claiming to be God". Peter declaring him the son of God has nothing to do with it. Jesus didn't advocate trinity doctrine.

[matteob]

Yoihave to look at Jesus' response to Peter , God's response at the transfiguration and many other things. I am guessing you are sceptical and fair enough but for a Christian the Bible is divinely inspired snd the first chapter of John is pretty plain on Trinity. John 8 particulatly v56 where Jesus said 'before Abraham was I am.'

[dneal]

I don't see that as what Jesus was saying. 2 verses earlier, in response to the question 'who do you think you are...'; "Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.""

A Christian is a follower of Jesus' teachings. No one was worried about 'divinely inspired texts', especially Jesus, in the beginning.

[Bold2013]

Sometimes you could miss the whole picture focused on the hard to know, less important details. (Kinda like a Pharisee which I have struggled with a time or two) A verse I read earlier today. Matt 11:25.5 you have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to infants.

But to answer the original question. Believe that Christ is the only true God who died for us and came back to life, love him with everything you got, loves others as Christ loved us, bear fruit, and take up your cross daily and follow him.

[matteob]

@dneal Atheists throw this question at Christians all the time. Genesis states we are all God's Children but Jesus is his only son. I am no theologian but reading the Bible (and I have read the whole thing) coupled with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit convince me of the Trinity. The Gospel writers did not need to spell it out in explicit terms because grace is hiven by the Spirit. Lot's of people can deny the Holy Spirit as well though Jesus says this is a terrible sin. Of course one can go down a totally different argument theologically here: pre destination: are Christians chosen by God before conversion and guided to the inevitable by the Spirit or is it a free decision? These are deep thological questions. This may help

https://www.gci.org/god/3bible

If you really are keen try reading the Summa Theologica by St Thomas Aquinas: all 5 volumes and 10,000 pages of it. One of the great Theologians:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17897

Or St Augustine. They can explain better than me.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm

@Bold2013 has summed it up well though. I am a humble Christian guided by the Spirit and living by faith.

[jar]

But to answer the original question. Believe that Christ is the only true God who died for us and came back to life, love him with everything you got, loves others as Christ loved us, bear fruit, and take up your cross daily and follow him.

That's one of those passages that got mangled in translation. Jesus did not say "Take up your cross and follow me"; he was talking about sports.

What he really said was "Take up Lacrosse and follow me."

[matteob]

Groan and facepalm Lol

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Never mind.

[dneal]

@dneal Atheists throw this question at Christians all the time. Genesis states we are all God's Children but Jesus is his only son. I am no theologian but reading the Bible (and I have read the whole thing) coupled with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit convince me of the Trinity. The Gospel writers did not need to spell it out in explicit terms because grace is hiven by the Spirit. Lot's of people can deny the Holy Spirit as well though Jesus says this is a terrible sin. Of course one can go down a totally different argument theologically here: pre destination: are Christians chosen by God before conversion and guided to the inevitable by the Spirit or is it a free decision? These are deep thological questions. This may help

https://www.gci.org/god/3bible

If you really are keen try reading the Summa Theologica by St Thomas Aquinas: all 5 volumes and 10,000 pages of it. One of the great Theologians:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17897

Or St Augustine. They can explain better than me.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm

@Bold2013 has summed it up well though. I am a humble Christian guided by the Spirit and living by faith.

Ok, as long as you're not implying that I'm an atheist throwing a particular question. I simply do not agree with the doctrine you advocate.

I have a degree in philosophy, and am familiar with Aquinas and Augustine. I would recommend Kierkegaard, his argument that beliefs are not knowledge and that absent empirical evidence one must make a "leap of faith" - accepting a belief as true while acknowledging there is no proof - because that is true piety.

[jar]

Ok, as long as you're not implying that I'm an atheist throwing a particular question. I simply do not agree with the doctrine you advocate.

I have a degree in philosophy, and am familiar with Aquinas and Augustine. I would recommend Kierkegaard, his argument that beliefs are not knowledge and that absent empirical evidence one must make a "leap of faith" - accepting a belief as true while acknowledging there is no proof - because that is true piety.

Back at ST Paul's School for Boys Kierkegaard was one of the authors whose works were required readings in Sacred Studies and English along with Mark Twain's Mysterious Stranger as well as Barth, Ibsen and Sartre.

[SIR]

In the simplest terms, my definition of Christian would be one who lives by, attempts to emulate, and is driven by the example of living given by Jesus in his own words and actions.

Reading a book, praying, singing, attending church etc are simply not enough to define one as a Christian.

[matteob]

@dneal I am sorry but belief in the Trinity is absolutelely fundamental to mainstream Christian thought. I am not questioning whether you are a theist or not but I would say that a Christian must believe in the divinity of Christ. The Bible acknowledges God the Father, God the Holy Spirit in explicit terms: the conception of Jesus, Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to the apostles (and us too who believe even today) and for Jesus to command God the Spirit he must have parity. There is of course John 1 is absolutely fundamental for Christians too. The denial of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ is Heresy. I don't try to rationalize on the power of God it is beyond knowing. This is what the Pharisees tried to do and they were put in their place by Jesus.

I think this is a suitable quotation to end my participation here.

"I praise you, Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." (Matthew 11 vs 25)

I urge you to take up the Bible and read it with an open mind and maybe, if you believe in God ask him to reveal himself and his truth to you regarding Jesus before you read. I would urge you to read the whole thing maybe over the course of a year. There are plans out there.

God bless.

[Mortiana27]

I was raised a Catholic but I haven't been to a church in a long while. As I read and learn, I started to question and I no longer believe in divinity of Jesus. I still believe in God. What does that make me?

The only question I see is "What does that make me?" To that question I'd say, you are a person who believes there is a God. Further categorizing isn't necessary (in my opinion).

As to the non-question subject line of this thread, I'll add that my definition of Christian is simply "follower of Christ". One who has read the Bible's account of his birth, life, and ministry then chooses to live their lives guided by how he lived and what he taught.

[dneal]

@dneal I am sorry but belief in the Trinity is absolutelely fundamental to mainstream Christian thought.

I don't disagree that it is mainstream. That does not make it true. It only makes it popular.

I am not questioning whether you are a theist or not but I would say that a Christian must believe in the divinity of Christ. The Bible acknowledges God the Father, God the Holy Spirit in explicit terms: the conception of Jesus, Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to the apostles (and us too who believe even today) and for Jesus to command God the Spirit he must have parity. There is of course John 1 is absolutely fundamental for Christians too. The denial of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ is Heresy. I don't try to rationalize on the power of God it is beyond knowing. This is what the Pharisees tried to do and they were put in their place by Jesus.

This is the "mainstream" interpretation of the Bible, often contradicted within the Bible. It is a matter of translation, interpretation and specific selection of texts; which history clearly shows. "The Bible" doesn't even have the same amount of books, depending on the denomination.

The OP questioned if trinity doctrine was essential to the definition of "Christian". You think it is, but there has been ample evidence offered throughout the thread to provide a rational conclusion that it isn't. History (or doctrine in this case) is written by the "winners". The bloody history of Christianity evidences this, why other lines of thinking were labeled "heresy" and violently eliminated.

My opposition to Pauline doctrine is summed up in this quote from George Bernard Shaw:

“No sooner had Jesus knocked over the dragon of superstition than Paul boldly set it on its legs again in the name of Jesus.”

I think this is a suitable quotation to end my participation here.

"I praise you, Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." (Matthew 11 vs 25)

I urge you to take up the Bible and read it with an open mind and maybe, if you believe in God ask him to reveal himself and his truth to you regarding Jesus before you read. I would urge you to read the whole thing maybe over the course of a year. There are plans out there.

God bless.

I'll offer a quote as well, although I don't remember if I already posted it in this thread...

“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” - Mark Twain

[Monkey]

“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” - Mark Twain

Excellent quote.

[RNHC]

In the simplest terms, my definition of Christian would be one who lives by, attempts to emulate, and is driven by the example of living given by Jesus in his own words and actions.

... my definition of Christian is simply "follower of Christ". One who has read the Bible's account of his birth, life, and ministry then chooses to live their lives guided by how he lived and what he taught.

So if I follow and live the basic message, i.e., be good, love, be kind and forgiving, etc., as taught by Jesus in the Bible (which, incidentally, are same as taught by many other religions in the world) but do not believe in divinity of Jesus, I am Christian in your book?