[QUOTE=jar;234585]Struggling to see what your response is driving at, but I think a simple No, still suffices. It doesn't matter how differently presented religion would have been, it wouldn't make me any more open to it. While i was hardly any sort of rebel, I also wasn't one to run with the herd either and do what other people did without considering why and what the point was. Although a child I looked at it all with a cynical eye, and wondered why people would believe such things. Clearly some people need something as a belief system.
Where I have a problem with religion is when it is being hard sold to me as the only answer to living, and I am some sort of evil or lesser person for not being sold. Religion seems to do a lot of judging and requiring obedience for its own sake.
Last edited by Drubbing; March 20th, 2018 at 07:04 AM.
My question revolves around that point. If religion had been presented as non-judgemental and explaining the practical reasons for certain behaviors would your position be different?
Sticking within the Christian spectrum, had Christianity been presented as one possible path to follow among many possible paths and instead of Commandments (613 "Thou Shalt Not"s) as a series of reasoned ethical and moral choices would you have reacted differently to the very concept of religion? Had it accepted non-belief as an equally valid option would that have changed your position on religion itself?
Is this meant to be provocative? I have seen your troll posts elsewhere on the net and guess this is another.
If you were Saul on the road, and you had a dramatic life changing experience, as I have, do you really say that it would not make you believe in a god. Either very confident in your atheism or something else.
As someone once said, dont feed the troll, so I am stepping out.
It should be fairly obvious. Especially to one who regularly makes obtuse comments.
As is the case with many of the comments you post. Asking someone if their opinion on Christianity would be different if Christianity itself was presented differently (which is what you asked in #184), is essentially the same.
Bananas are bananas. Apples are apples. Changing the name does not change their substance.
But Christianity is not monolithic, there is no such thing as "The Christianity™" and when I suggest Christianity might be presented differently it does not change the fact that it is still Christianity; thus your attempted bumper sticker is still meaning less or at best a trivial truism.
So again, is there some message or meaning or relevance in your posts in this thread?
dneal (March 24th, 2018)
Of course there is meaning and relevance.
Eat cake, have it too. That's what your statement implies. The way Christianity is presented is, I would argue, fundamental to the religion itself. To change details is to alter the religion.... when I suggest Christianity might be presented differently it does not change the fact that it is still Christianity
Clearer now?
Not really at all. There are thousands of different versions of Christianity. So what is fundamental to a Chicago Statement of Inerrancy Christian may not be fundamental to a member of a different chapter of club Christian.
That is in fact the actual topic.
So once again, how are your posts related or relevant to the topic?
dneal (March 24th, 2018)
How are yours anything more than a hair-splitting attempt to drive an agenda (or sway an opinion)?
It relates to the late thread argument you are deploying, not the earlier parts.
I understand what you are saying JAR, and I think that even if a child at an early age, is introduced to the best version of Christianity by the most well meaning and altruistic teachers, the ability of its message and corresponding faith sticking depend on the individual receiving the message. In this optimal scenario, I think you would end up with significantly more lifetime believers than normal Christian parishes achieve, but never achieve 100% success. Faith is very individual and some will choose to believe the tenets of Christianity but others will not believe, some for selfish reasons, but others for sound, logical reasons (most certainly logical to them) due to atheism or another religion.
You can't posit hypotheticals about how Christianity might present itself differently, and then ask if someone would feel differently about the concept. Maybe they would. maybe not. Children, as you asked in an earlier question, is a different thing again. Some are more susceptible to suggestion, coercion and asserts of 'fact' that religion uses, than others. So some would some wouldn't, just as they do with current approaches.
But Christianity doesn't present options of belief, or options for atheism, that's pretty much contradictory to how it operates. The thousands of different versions of Christianity, all shades of the same colour.
Last edited by Drubbing; March 23rd, 2018 at 09:30 AM.
No, it's a civil discussion and I'm putting my viewpoint courteously to others. I'm being polite and civil with any responses here, so can't see any accusations of trolling as valid. My point was that people predisposed to religion will see or turn to a god in any major life event. I've had those too and haven't, because I'm not predisposed to the concept of religion or gods.
I don't agree with religious belief, but if people want that in their lives that's their choice. But I do have issues with organised religion and the influence of the church on the lives of those who don't believe. My life and beliefs are none of the churches' business, and its mores and agendas should not dictate society as a whole.
Plus, I don't get around the net that much, so if you've seen me 'troll' elsewhere, then one of us must be very busy online. Frankly, I don't have that much spare time and have limited interests.
Last edited by Drubbing; March 23rd, 2018 at 09:29 AM.
I have seen you provoke, annoy and belittle anyone who doesnt agree with you on two forums, stating your opinions as facts and goading people into a response even when you state, as you have done now, that the topic on 'what is a Christian' is not relevant as you dont agree with religous belief.
If you dont have a dog in the race step away from the keyboard and stop being a Troll, and an annoying one at that.
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