Definition of Christian

[Lees]

There is no reason to invent things that do not exist in the text @Lees unless you are motivated by your end time preferences. However, you have provided an explanation as to why Evangelicals are Zionists, and for that, thank you.

No invention. I proved what I said with Scripture. You, however, offer nothing. Just a typical whine.

Of course Evangelicals are Zionist's God is a Zionist. Jesus Christ is a Zionist.

i respond to your questions and statements. What do you do with mine? Ignore it. Don't attempt to explain. I asked you how is what I have said an 'abbreviated salvation' as you claim. And by the way, I don't ever remember you answering this question. Is the Bible the Word of God?

But, keep painting that scarecrow. You are much better with a brush then the Bible.

Lees

[Lees]

The message people hear from the American church is, Jesus died for your sins and when you die, you’ll go to heaven.

I’ve learned from a discussion with @Lees the reason. When you take away what Jesus preached regarding the kingdom, inner transformation, apprenticeship, and doing what he prescribed, all that it left is sins forgiven and heaven when you die.

Jesus isn’t a part of your daily routine. He doesn’t have to be brilliant and able to help you in your profession or problems. He is cast to the side.

The message that Jesus preached and John before is, “change how you think because God has come near”.

Let's see, the truth about God is found in the Bible, the Word of God. My Bible consists of 1684 pages. Yours is just your one statement.

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

There is no reason to invent things that do not exist in the text @Lees unless you are motivated by your end time preferences. However, you have provided an explanation as to why Evangelicals are Zionists, and for that, thank you.

No invention. I proved what I said with Scripture. You, however, offer nothing. Just a typical whine.

Of course Evangelicals are Zionist's God is a Zionist. Jesus Christ is a Zionist.

i respond to your questions and statements. What do you do with mine? Ignore it. Don't attempt to explain. I asked you how is what I have said an 'abbreviated salvation' as you claim. And by the way, I don't ever remember you answering this question. Is the Bible the Word of God?

But, keep painting that scarecrow. You are much better with a brush then the Bible.

Lees

I’ve responded to every inquiry. Why pretend your posts are not being paid attention?

When you repeat the same verses multiple times, it’s irrational to expect a different response.

Also, as others have noted, the verses you post to make your point do not remotely resemble what you say you say they do. That’s why your posts as laughable and untenable.

It’s been a useful exchange for me. Based on your posts on other threads, whatever you believe isn’t working.

[Lees]

There is no reason to invent things that do not exist in the text @Lees unless you are motivated by your end time preferences. However, you have provided an explanation as to why Evangelicals are Zionists, and for that, thank you.

No invention. I proved what I said with Scripture. You, however, offer nothing. Just a typical whine.

Of course Evangelicals are Zionist's God is a Zionist. Jesus Christ is a Zionist.

i respond to your questions and statements. What do you do with mine? Ignore it. Don't attempt to explain. I asked you how is what I have said an 'abbreviated salvation' as you claim. And by the way, I don't ever remember you answering this question. Is the Bible the Word of God?

But, keep painting that scarecrow. You are much better with a brush then the Bible.

Lees

I’ve responded to every inquiry. Why pretend your posts are not being paid attention?

When you repeat the same verses multiple times, it’s irrational to expect a different response.

Also, as others have noted, the verses you post to make your point do not remotely resemble what you say you say they do. That’s why your posts as laughable and untenable.

It’s been a useful exchange for me. Based on your posts on other threads, whatever you believe isn’t working.

No, you just disagree with what I said. You don't point out the the so called error in the Scripture I use. You and other just laugh, say I just invent things, but you have nothing to offer with Scripture.

I repeat the verses if they need to be repeated. You have to have a first response before you get a different response. And laughable is not a response other than it shows you have nothing to offer. Thus the verses I post are tenable, which is why you can't address them.

Whether the exchange is useful to you or not, means nothing to me. I don't do it for you. Thus if it isn't working for you or anyone else, doesn't matter. Your suggestion speaks volumes for your motives in posting.

Lees

[dneal]

But you do invent things.

Sometimes they're historical, like Abraham Lincoln was President in 1860, or Robert E Lee owned the house that belonged to his wife.

Sometimes they're scriptural, like Cain married his sister and had children with her.

The dodge above is (yet again) wrapped up nicely with a shift of blame.

Cue the pedantic questions to dodge and shift blame...

[Lees]

But you do invent things.

Sometimes they're historical, like Abraham Lincoln was President in 1860, or Robert E Lee owned the house that belonged to his wife.

Sometimes they're scriptural, like Cain married his sister and had children with her.

The dodge above is (yet again) wrapped up nicely with a shift of blame.

Cue the pedantic questions to dodge and shift blame...

if it is Scriptural that Cain married his sister, then why don't you believe it. Are you saying you don't believe the Scripture?

Lees

[dneal]

But you do invent things.

Sometimes they're historical, like Abraham Lincoln was President in 1860, or Robert E Lee owned the house that belonged to his wife.

Sometimes they're scriptural, like Cain married his sister and had children with her.

The dodge above is (yet again) wrapped up nicely with a shift of blame.

Cue the pedantic questions to dodge and shift blame...

if it is Scriptural that Cain married his sister, then why don't you believe it. Are you saying you don't believe the Scripture?

Lees

What scripture? You've offered nothing that states that.

All you have is your interpretations.

Anybody can interpret anything they want by selecting the text that fits their argument - which is all you've done.

TSherbs pointed it out.
Welch pointed it out.
Chuck pointed it out.
I pointed it out.

But yes, tell us all we're running away, painting the scarecrow (what an odd idiom, btw...), hiding, scared, and all sorts of other mantras to avoid your own shortcomings.

[Chuck Naill]

There is no reason to invent things that do not exist in the text @Lees unless you are motivated by your end time preferences. However, you have provided an explanation as to why Evangelicals are Zionists, and for that, thank you.

No invention. I proved what I said with Scripture. You, however, offer nothing. Just a typical whine.

Of course Evangelicals are Zionist's God is a Zionist. Jesus Christ is a Zionist.

i respond to your questions and statements. What do you do with mine? Ignore it. Don't attempt to explain. I asked you how is what I have said an 'abbreviated salvation' as you claim. And by the way, I don't ever remember you answering this question. Is the Bible the Word of God?

But, keep painting that scarecrow. You are much better with a brush then the Bible.

Lees

I’ve responded to every inquiry. Why pretend your posts are not being paid attention?

When you repeat the same verses multiple times, it’s irrational to expect a different response.

Also, as others have noted, the verses you post to make your point do not remotely resemble what you say you say they do. That’s why your posts as laughable and untenable.

It’s been a useful exchange for me. Based on your posts on other threads, whatever you believe isn’t working.

No, you just disagree with what I said. You don't point out the the so called error in the Scripture I use. You and other just laugh, say I just invent things, but you have nothing to offer with Scripture.

I repeat the verses if they need to be repeated. You have to have a first response before you get a different response. And laughable is not a response other than it shows you have nothing to offer. Thus the verses I post are tenable, which is why you can't address them.

Whether the exchange is useful to you or not, means nothing to me. I don't do it for you. Thus if it isn't working for you or anyone else, doesn't matter. Your suggestion speaks volumes for your motives in posting.

Lees

It’s not that i disagree. You don’t comprehend or can see that the verses you post do not read as you think they do. This makes me think you were told what they mean. Over time you came to believe not the words on the page, but the words in your mind.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

[Chuck Naill]

This is instructive for how the people of God should exist in the world. I'll post two versions in order to give a more full understanding. Note that "good works" is an essential quality of a life under the apprenticeship of Jesus.

"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you." NASB 1995

"For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that [a]brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age, awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who [willingly] gave Himself [to be crucified] on our behalf to redeem us and purchase our freedom from all wickedness, and to purify for Himself a chosen and very special people to be His own possession, who are enthusiastic for doing what is good. Tell them these things. Encourage and rebuke with full authority. Let no one disregard or despise you [conduct yourself and your teaching so as to command respect]. "Amplified

What brings this about is the Message of the Kingdom. It is an engulfment, as I have been saying, by the Trinitarian Community and a power beyond our mental and physical capabilities. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

You gave nothing. Show me what I said was wrong by the Scripture.

I asked you a question. Do you believe the words on the page of the Bible are the Word of God?

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

You gave nothing. Show me what I said was wrong by the Scripture.

I asked you a question. Do you believe the words on the page of the Bible are the Word of God?

Lees

This is where I responded to your question @Lees. "I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race."

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

You gave nothing. Show me what I said was wrong by the Scripture.

I asked you a question. Do you believe the words on the page of the Bible are the Word of God?

Lees

This is where I responded to your question @Lees. "I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race."

A simple yes or no is all you need to say. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Yes or no?

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

You gave nothing. Show me what I said was wrong by the Scripture.

I asked you a question. Do you believe the words on the page of the Bible are the Word of God?

Lees

This is where I responded to your question @Lees. "I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race."

A simple yes or no is all you need to say. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Yes or no?

Lees

You get to ask the question as you wish, but not the way I answer @Lees.

However, you think the Bible is the work of God and yet, you don’t seem to be able comprehend in plain HS English was it says, and more importantly, what it doesn’t say. Why consider it the word of God if you can’t understand what it says?

[Chuck Naill]

I'm talking about a different gospel, @Lees. I am talking about one that changes our hearts and minds. We don't need to argue to prove something to anyone because we will know and have the experience. That's the message of the Kingdom.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1268)

Yes it's that you disagree but don't explain the verses I gave you.

Your claim that all your knowledge of God and Christ comes from you and your experience and you learned nothing from any other Christian is not surprising. And that is a dangerous doctrine.

I believe the words on the page and have presented them. Do you believe the words on the page are the Word of God? Do you?

Lees

I did explain that the verses you chose to post do not render the interpretation you gave them.

Look, I gave you some attention and took your post with a measure of seriousness. Why attack me because you can't read plain English. The Bible is written for a HS student's reading skills.

I know you believe what you say you believe.

I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race.

My focus is on Jesus. When I read the scriptures, it is as an apprentice. I am learning how to live my life by following what he said, doing what he did, and how he did it. You have been unsuccessful in your attempt to distort his message because of your Dispensational theories of your preferred end time beliefs. I have no use for this. It is important for me to present an accurate portrayal of the message Jesus preached, which is, change how you think because God has come near through me. This is the good news. It is for anyone and everyone. It is for today. And, it is for you.

You gave nothing. Show me what I said was wrong by the Scripture.

I asked you a question. Do you believe the words on the page of the Bible are the Word of God?

Lees

This is where I responded to your question @Lees. "I believe, rather I have come to know, absolutely that the scriptures were written by disciples for disciples and that they are true and useful to learn how to follow Jesus. I also know how cults and others use the same scriptures to distort the text for their own purposes as you have done saying God invented slavery and the manner in which you approach the topic of race."

A simple yes or no is all you need to say. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Yes or no?

Lees

You get to ask the question as you wish, but not the way I answer @Lees.

However, you think the Bible is the work of God and yet, you don’t seem to be able comprehend in plain HS English was it says, and more importantly, what it doesn’t say. Why consider it the word of God if you can’t understand what it says?

I don't care how you answer. I just ask that you would answer. Which you haven't It's a simple yes or no question. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God. By your refusal to answer you have answered. You don't.

No, I believe the Bible is the Word of God. It doesn't matter how much one understands. One, a Christian, must believe and know that the Bible is the Word of God. Then from there he can learn of God. You instead reject the Bible as the Word of God and then inject your experience as that which teaches you of God. You are on dangerous ground. You in other words make your words based upon your so called experience, the word of God.

The bottom line here is that you reject the Bible as the Word of God. Which means any reference to Jesus teaching that you try to use and pervert, are worthless. For if it is not of God, what value is it. Answer: no value.

Lees