Definition of Christian

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naills: concerning post #(1339)

Yes, Scripture is very clear here. It's your belief that is muddy. And why shouldn't it be when you don't believe the Bible? You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.

Yes, I am a Zionist. A Zionist is just one who believes what God does about Zion. Zion is Jerusalem, the City of David. (1 Kings 8:1) See (Ps. 2:6-7) "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. A direct reference to Jesus Christ and speaks prophetically to when Jesus will rule and reign in Jerusalem, in Israel. Zion. So yes I agree with God concerning Zion. No, the Scriptures force me to my eschatology. It is you who have a strange belief and then try and use the Scripture to support it. And even then denying the Scripture as the Word of God. You don't believe the Scripture. You believe you. Which is why you seldom reference any Scripture.

No, there is not one message Jesus preached. At the beginning He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom with John the Baptist, and the disciples as the Kingdom was being offered to Israel. Then the offer was taken away as I showed you. A new body of believers is formed, the Church, made up of Jew and Gentile, as I showed you. That Gospel was the Gospel of Grace revealed to Paul as I also showed you. All of which i proved in post #(1338).

Compare (Matt. 10:9-13) to (Luke 22:35-36) In (Matt. 10) The Gospel of the Kingdom is being preached. And it is to Israel. (Matt. 10:6) Jesus is sending the disciples out to preach the Kingdom. And they are not to take any money in their purse. Nor coats. Nor shoes. Nor staves. (Matt. 10:9-10) In (Luke 22) the Kingdom has been rejected and is no more offered. The Crucifixion is next. So Christ tells His disciples that those things that accompanied the Gospel of the Kingdom I am removing. "And he said unto them, When I sent you out without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Note those words of Christ, "But now" There is now a change. A different message. Take care of your needs. Be smart. Provide for your defense. A new age, a new dispensation is starting.

No, What blesses a person is when they come to faith in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God and Saviour. They are then in the Kingdom of God, as the Church. Not as Israel. The Kingdom offer to Israel has been removed. The new Gospel is the Gospel of Grace. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, Paul was preaching the new Gospel which was to everyone. The Gospel of the Kingdom was to Israel only. The new Gospel to the Church is to all. This conclusion of the apostles to whom Peter was speaking, was "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." It wasn't that way before. Yes Peter was educated that there is now a change.

Do you believe that the Church was not known until Christ revealed Paul's gospel to him? Unknown and hid since the beginning of the world? (Eph. 3:2-5) (Eph. 3:9) Do you believe that?

My racial insults? I don't remember any racial insults. Keep painting that scarecrow. It's all you got.

Lees

Did I use the word “muddy”?

Yes, one message, same as Paul. It is now, as it’s always, been to all people including the Jewish people.

Jesus revealed his “called out ones” in Matthew 16

Yes, it’s well known here what you think of race.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naills: concerning post #(1339)

Yes, Scripture is very clear here. It's your belief that is muddy. And why shouldn't it be when you don't believe the Bible? You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.

Yes, I am a Zionist. A Zionist is just one who believes what God does about Zion. Zion is Jerusalem, the City of David. (1 Kings 8:1) See (Ps. 2:6-7) "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. A direct reference to Jesus Christ and speaks prophetically to when Jesus will rule and reign in Jerusalem, in Israel. Zion. So yes I agree with God concerning Zion. No, the Scriptures force me to my eschatology. It is you who have a strange belief and then try and use the Scripture to support it. And even then denying the Scripture as the Word of God. You don't believe the Scripture. You believe you. Which is why you seldom reference any Scripture.

No, there is not one message Jesus preached. At the beginning He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom with John the Baptist, and the disciples as the Kingdom was being offered to Israel. Then the offer was taken away as I showed you. A new body of believers is formed, the Church, made up of Jew and Gentile, as I showed you. That Gospel was the Gospel of Grace revealed to Paul as I also showed you. All of which i proved in post #(1338).

Compare (Matt. 10:9-13) to (Luke 22:35-36) In (Matt. 10) The Gospel of the Kingdom is being preached. And it is to Israel. (Matt. 10:6) Jesus is sending the disciples out to preach the Kingdom. And they are not to take any money in their purse. Nor coats. Nor shoes. Nor staves. (Matt. 10:9-10) In (Luke 22) the Kingdom has been rejected and is no more offered. The Crucifixion is next. So Christ tells His disciples that those things that accompanied the Gospel of the Kingdom I am removing. "And he said unto them, When I sent you out without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Note those words of Christ, "But now" There is now a change. A different message. Take care of your needs. Be smart. Provide for your defense. A new age, a new dispensation is starting.

No, What blesses a person is when they come to faith in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God and Saviour. They are then in the Kingdom of God, as the Church. Not as Israel. The Kingdom offer to Israel has been removed. The new Gospel is the Gospel of Grace. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, Paul was preaching the new Gospel which was to everyone. The Gospel of the Kingdom was to Israel only. The new Gospel to the Church is to all. This conclusion of the apostles to whom Peter was speaking, was "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." It wasn't that way before. Yes Peter was educated that there is now a change.

Do you believe that the Church was not known until Christ revealed Paul's gospel to him? Unknown and hid since the beginning of the world? (Eph. 3:2-5) (Eph. 3:9) Do you believe that?

My racial insults? I don't remember any racial insults. Keep painting that scarecrow. It's all you got.

Lees

Did I use the word “muddy”?

Yes, one message, same as Paul. It is now, as it’s always, been to all people including the Jewish people.

Jesus revealed his “called out ones” in Matthew 16

Yes, it’s well known here what you think of race.

No, I used muddy to describe your strange doctrine. Which is nothing but unbelief. You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. You don't believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, Deity, God the Son. And now you confess by your refusal to answer my question, that you don't believe the Church was unknown and hidden since the world began. Which Paul clearly stated. (Eph. 3:2-9)

No, what was the message to Adam and Eve when they sinned? What was the message to those from Adam to Moses? What was the message to those from Adam to Christ? What was the Gospel of the Kingdom message? What is the Gospel of the Church? What will be the message during the Tribulation?

How did Jesus reveal His 'called out ones' in (Matt. 16)?

Again, I don't remember any racial insults. Keep painting that scarecrow.

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

I didn’t think I would have used muddy, but I’m not surprised you’d try to invent something that doesn’t exist.

You keep repeating that I don’t believe this or that. I do not share your definitions and how you interpret otherwise clear sentences into something that fits your eschatology and Zionists views.

The theories of a period of tribulation are many. I haven’t given it much consideration. It’s not that I’m disinterested, but it doesn’t affect understanding of the message Jesus presented. Also, I am unable to take the passages used to present a pre or post trib view and come to a conclusion that objectively verified. If there was clarity, there would be only one theory.

If you think Jesus had more than a few messages, I’m not here to dissuade.

“Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.”

Keys to the kingdom is like the keys to your front door, you have access.

[Chuck Naill]

For me, experiencing God is a knowable option. I can experience a realm that I cannot experience using my five senses, but that will have a physical reality in how I live.

If there is no experience of the nearness of God, as described by Jesus, I am unable to access this knowledge of God. At best, it will be head knowledge.

Entering this KOG enables me to live in the present reality of a father, his son, and his spirit. In a way I have had a turbo installed.

If I am being spiritually transformed, I will be able to know that it is occurring. It’s not a hope so or recon so sort of arrangement.

This is and was the message Jesus preached, that eternal living, that begins today, is knowledge of God.

[Lees]

I didn’t think I would have used muddy, but I’m not surprised you’d try to invent something that doesn’t exist.

You keep repeating that I don’t believe this or that. I do not share your definitions and how you interpret otherwise clear sentences into something that fits your eschatology and Zionists views.

The theories of a period of tribulation are many. I haven’t given it much consideration. It’s not that I’m disinterested, but it doesn’t affect understanding of the message Jesus presented. Also, I am unable to take the passages used to present a pre or post trib view and come to a conclusion that objectively verified. If there was clarity, there would be only one theory.

If you think Jesus had more than a few messages, I’m not here to dissuade.

“Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.”

Keys to the kingdom is like the keys to your front door, you have access.

Again, I used the term 'muddy' to describe your 'strange doctrine'. I'm not inventing anything. You reject the Bible as the Word of God. You reject Jesus Christ as God the Son. You reject what Paul said about the Church being unknown since the world began. Yet you promote yourself as being a follower of Jesus Christ. An 'apprentice' you say. When in actuality, you are a phony.

You say there is only one message, yet you can't answer the questions I give you about your supposedly one message. I have given proof in the Scriptures, you have given nothing. You reject the Scripture yet try and use the Scripture. And you sound so holy and spiritual to the Scripturally ignorant. Oh yes, what a man of God you must be...not. You pervert the Scripture and all that Jesus Christ has said. But, of course you have so many 'supporters' here on this forum. Which can only mean they are part of your facade.

No, you don't share my belief that the Bible is the Word of God. Which means your interpretation means nothing. To you it is nothing but the writings of man. Just as your belief is based on man, on you, not God. You want to use the Bible, yet you deny the Bible. Oxymoronic for the Oxymoron.

There is clarity in the Bible concerning the Tribulation. There is no clarity for you because you want to use the Bible for your own purpose. And the Tribulation doesn't fit what you want, so you claim 'ignorance'. Which is a true claim on your part, but you at the same time claim you understand the Bible and you don't.

What do you mean you are not here to dissuade. You have said there is only one message. I asked you questions concerning this one message. And, you can't answer. Why? Because Scripture is against you. And you now say you are not here to dissuade. The truth is you cannot dissuade and now pretend that is not your purpose. In other words...Scripture is against you and you cannot answer.

Concerning your comment on (Matt. 16)...big deal. I asked you 'how did Jesus reveal his called out ones in (Matt. 16)' which is what you claimed. So, again, please answer.

Lees

[Lees]

For me, experiencing God is a knowable option. I can experience a realm that I cannot experience using my five senses, but that will have a physical reality in how I live.

If there is no experience of the nearness of God, as described by Jesus, I am unable to access this knowledge of God. At best, it will be head knowledge.

Entering this KOG enables me to live in the present reality of a father, his son, and his spirit. In a way I have had a turbo installed.

If I am being spiritually transformed, I will be able to know that it is occurring. It’s not a hope so or recon so sort of arrangement.

This is and was the message Jesus preached, that eternal living, that begins today, is knowledge of God.

When your so-called experience is not based upon the Word of God, what good is your experience? It's not. If Jesus is not Who He claims to be, God the Son, then what authority does He have? And if you follow one who doesn't have that authority, what makes you think you are following God? What do you base your claim on, that your experience determines what God wants? How does your experience trump the Word of God?

Nice speech...full of empty words. But it sounds so spiritual to many. But is a lie.

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

I didn’t think I would have used muddy, but I’m not surprised you’d try to invent something that doesn’t exist.

You keep repeating that I don’t believe this or that. I do not share your definitions and how you interpret otherwise clear sentences into something that fits your eschatology and Zionists views.

The theories of a period of tribulation are many. I haven’t given it much consideration. It’s not that I’m disinterested, but it doesn’t affect understanding of the message Jesus presented. Also, I am unable to take the passages used to present a pre or post trib view and come to a conclusion that objectively verified. If there was clarity, there would be only one theory.

If you think Jesus had more than a few messages, I’m not here to dissuade.

“Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.”

Keys to the kingdom is like the keys to your front door, you have access.

Again, I used the term 'muddy' to describe your 'strange doctrine'. I'm not inventing anything. You reject the Bible as the Word of God. You reject Jesus Christ as God the Son. You reject what Paul said about the Church being unknown since the world began. Yet you promote yourself as being a follower of Jesus Christ. An 'apprentice' you say. When in actuality, you are a phony.

You say there is only one message, yet you can't answer the questions I give you about your supposedly one message. I have given proof in the Scriptures, you have given nothing. You reject the Scripture yet try and use the Scripture. And you sound so holy and spiritual to the Scripturally ignorant. Oh yes, what a man of God you must be...not. You pervert the Scripture and all that Jesus Christ has said. But, of course you have so many 'supporters' here on this forum. Which can only mean they are part of your facade.

No, you don't share my belief that the Bible is the Word of God. Which means your interpretation means nothing. To you it is nothing but the writings of man. Just as your belief is based on man, on you, not God. You want to use the Bible, yet you deny the Bible. Oxymoronic for the Oxymoron.

There is clarity in the Bible concerning the Tribulation. There is no clarity for you because you want to use the Bible for your own purpose. And the Tribulation doesn't fit what you want, so you claim 'ignorance'. Which is a true claim on your part, but you at the same time claim you understand the Bible and you don't.

What do you mean you are not here to dissuade. You have said there is only one message. I asked you questions concerning this one message. And, you can't answer. Why? Because Scripture is against you. And you now say you are not here to dissuade. The truth is you cannot dissuade and now pretend that is not your purpose. In other words...Scripture is against you and you cannot answer.

Concerning your comment on (Matt. 16)...big deal. I asked you 'how did Jesus reveal his called out ones in (Matt. 16)' which is what you claimed. So, again, please answer.

Lees

I have responded to all of your questions. The problem is simple, you don't like the answers. Again, you can control the question, but not the answer.

Yes, only one message from Jesus which was followed by the same message by the Apostolic writers. The Kingdom of God is within grasp. We have the keys that provide access by simply following Jesus. Then, the laws, the OT laws, become written on our hearts and we can do them. Old spiritual traits like anger, lying, contempt, over time, become unnatural for the apprentice of Jesus.

I have no supporters on this forum that I am aware. Some are more friendly. Ted participates on religious topics. He has an interest, but as you know he thinks there is no God. What he and others have pointed out to you is your use of a verse to make your case even though a clear reading of the text does say what you say it does. An example is your idea that God invented slavery, or that Peter's vision invented a new message, or that "all Israel will be saved" is something in the future when the context of the passage is clear that both the Jews and non Jew believers had become the true Israel.

There is no clarity of a tribulation or else there would not be so many theories.

You asked this question @Lees, "Do you believe that the Church was not known until Christ revealed Paul's gospel to him?" No, I do not and for the reason I provided using Matthew 18 where Jesus, referring to who Peter said he was. Upon this foundational position Jesus would build his ekkeslia (church) aka called out ones.

The early believers were referred to The Way. "Disciple" the idea behind apprenticeship is mentioned 261 times in the NT. Christian is listed twice. The early believers Jew or non-Jew became apprentices of Jesus. Paul, Peter, John et al were disciples or students of Jesus. They didn't invent a new message.

[Chuck Naill]

For me, experiencing God is a knowable option. I can experience a realm that I cannot experience using my five senses, but that will have a physical reality in how I live.

If there is no experience of the nearness of God, as described by Jesus, I am unable to access this knowledge of God. At best, it will be head knowledge.

Entering this KOG enables me to live in the present reality of a father, his son, and his spirit. In a way I have had a turbo installed.

If I am being spiritually transformed, I will be able to know that it is occurring. It’s not a hope so or recon so sort of arrangement.

This is and was the message Jesus preached, that eternal living, that begins today, is knowledge of God.

When your so-called experience is not based upon the Word of God, what good is your experience? It's not. If Jesus is not Who He claims to be, God the Son, then what authority does He have? And if you follow one who doesn't have that authority, what makes you think you are following God? What do you base your claim on, that your experience determines what God wants? How does your experience trump the Word of God?

Nice speech...full of empty words. But it sounds so spiritual to many. But is a lie.

Lees

But it is based on the scriptures. Who said Jesus isn't the son of the Father? I am following Jesus as he prescribed in Matthew 28:18-20.

What I have had to go against is the sort of gospel you preach which is head knowledge or stuff you've been taught that does not result in an inner transformation. Given your words here and what you think, it's obvious you have much anger and contempt. It is obvious you have some sort of odd non historical idea of the Antebellum Era. You have a few toward others who do not agree with you as your enemies. You apparently think dark skin leads to disunity. In other words, you do not remind of Jesus. For me, that is the best description of a man running on empty.

For me, questioning God and what he said is an intelligent endeavor. What we think of God will determine how we interact or don't interact. If we think there is no God, God will not be a part of their lives. If we think Jesus is a nice person, but not the most brillant teacher ever, we won't fully entrust our lives to him or incorporate him and what he said into our daily lives. We will follow the person we think is the smartest.

Deciding we already know shuts off learning. Knowledge evolves. God created us to reason, think, and make decisions. When we live mindlessly, we are not true to how we were created.

[Chuck Naill]

Regarding Paul's message and those to whom he taught, Acts 20.

“You yourselves know how I lived among you all the time from the first day that I set foot in Asia, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which befell me through the plots of the Jews; how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the Spirit, not knowing what shall befall me there; except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. "

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1347)

No, you haven't answered all the questions I asked. Go back to (1342). Answer my questions concerning the the message of Paul, the message from Adam to Moses, the message from Moses to Christ, the message of the Kingdom, the message of the Church. And give me the chapter and verse in the Bible of each message.

And, how did Jesus reveal His called out ones in (Matt. 16)? Chapter and verse.

And you have never answered my question, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh....Deity...the God/Man? Because you refuse to answer these, and the way you use the Bible, I assume you do not believe these. But you can clear it up by answering directly.

Just because there is disagreement of the 'when' of the Tribulation doesn't mean the Bible isn't clear that there will be a Tribulation. And through your method of interpretation, everything is muddy in the Bible, which is why you seldom give the Bible reference to what you say. When one interprets the Bible, through the normal/literal method, the timing supports the pre-Trib interpretation. That it occurs after the Rapture of the Church.

I assume you meant (Matt. 16:18) in your reference. (Matt. 16:18) proves nothing of the sort. Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build my church" Future. When do you say the Church of Jesus Christ began?

Explain (Eph. 3:2). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" What dispensation?

Explain (Eph. 3:-3-6) "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery....Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it is now revealed...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" If the Church wasn't known in other ages, and to Paul it was revealed by Christ, when did the Church begin? See also, (Eph. 3:9) "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God...."

No, Christ invented the new Message. "Whom say ye that I am" (Matt. 16:15) And upon that Christ will build His Church, that one Body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile. A new message for a new age of grace.

Lees

[Lees]

For me, experiencing God is a knowable option. I can experience a realm that I cannot experience using my five senses, but that will have a physical reality in how I live.

If there is no experience of the nearness of God, as described by Jesus, I am unable to access this knowledge of God. At best, it will be head knowledge.

Entering this KOG enables me to live in the present reality of a father, his son, and his spirit. In a way I have had a turbo installed.

If I am being spiritually transformed, I will be able to know that it is occurring. It’s not a hope so or recon so sort of arrangement.

This is and was the message Jesus preached, that eternal living, that begins today, is knowledge of God.

When your so-called experience is not based upon the Word of God, what good is your experience? It's not. If Jesus is not Who He claims to be, God the Son, then what authority does He have? And if you follow one who doesn't have that authority, what makes you think you are following God? What do you base your claim on, that your experience determines what God wants? How does your experience trump the Word of God?

Nice speech...full of empty words. But it sounds so spiritual to many. But is a lie.

Lees

But it is based on the scriptures. Who said Jesus isn't the son of the Father? I am following Jesus as he prescribed in Matthew 28:18-20.

What I have had to go against is the sort of gospel you preach which is head knowledge or stuff you've been taught that does not result in an inner transformation. Given your words here and what you think, it's obvious you have much anger and contempt. It is obvious you have some sort of odd non historical idea of the Antebellum Era. You have a few toward others who do not agree with you as your enemies. You apparently think dark skin leads to disunity. In other words, you do not remind of Jesus. For me, that is the best description of a man running on empty.

For me, questioning God and what he said is an intelligent endeavor. What we think of God will determine how we interact or don't interact. If we think there is no God, God will not be a part of their lives. If we think Jesus is a nice person, but not the most brillant teacher ever, we won't fully entrust our lives to him or incorporate him and what he said into our daily lives. We will follow the person we think is the smartest.

Deciding we already know shuts off learning. Knowledge evolves. God created us to reason, think, and make decisions. When we live mindlessly, we are not true to how we were created.

No. Your doctrine is not based upon the Scriptures. Scripture is against you. Your doctrine is based upon your 'experience' where you use certain Scripture. You use your experience to interpret. You don't try and understand the Scripture. And, you don't believe the Bible, the Scriptures are the Word of God. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God, as it says? If not, how is your doctrine based upon the Scripture?

Is Jesus God in the flesh? Is Jesus God the Son? If not, you're not following the Jesus of the Bible.

You don't just question what God says in the Bible, you reject what God says in the Bible. Your doctrine is based on you alone and you use Scripture to try and support it when you can. Of course, if the Bible is not the Word of God, then you can freely choose and reject whatever you want. Which you do.

No, knowledge of God doesn't evolve. Knowledge of God is obtained by God revealing Himself. In the Bible and in Christ. Your knowledge is not based upon either.

Lees

[Lees]

Regarding Paul's message and those to whom he taught, Acts 20.

“You yourselves know how I lived among you all the time from the first day that I set foot in Asia, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which befell me through the plots of the Jews; how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the Spirit, not knowing what shall befall me there; except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. "

(Acts 20:25) says "kingdom of God" Not just kingdom.

It is a brief message of Paul's gospel to the Church. It centers on the Person of Jesus Christ. The Kingdom here is the Kingdom of God. As I have said before, when one is saved and brought into that new body of believers, the Church, he is in the Kingdom of God. Not to be mistaken for the Kingdom preached to Israel where Israel is saved and Christ rules physically on earth, in Israel, and in Jerusalem.

In other words, Paul is not preaching the Kingdom of Heaven that is offered to Israel. He is preaching of the Kingdom of God of which the Church is part of.

And Paul's message and Gospel are not found in one verse, but in all of his epistles. And in all, he preaches faith in the Person of Christ. See (Rom. 1:15-17) "So , as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of th gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

(Rom. 3:21-22) "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Faith in the Person of Jesus Christ brings eternal life and salvation.

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1347)

No, you haven't answered all the questions I asked. Go back to (1342). Answer my questions concerning the the message of Paul, the message from Adam to Moses, the message from Moses to Christ, the message of the Kingdom, the message of the Church. And give me the chapter and verse in the Bible of each message.

And, how did Jesus reveal His called out ones in (Matt. 16)? Chapter and verse.

And you have never answered my question, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh....Deity...the God/Man? Because you refuse to answer these, and the way you use the Bible, I assume you do not believe these. But you can clear it up by answering directly.

Just because there is disagreement of the 'when' of the Tribulation doesn't mean the Bible isn't clear that there will be a Tribulation. And through your method of interpretation, everything is muddy in the Bible, which is why you seldom give the Bible reference to what you say. When one interprets the Bible, through the normal/literal method, the timing supports the pre-Trib interpretation. That it occurs after the Rapture of the Church.

I assume you meant (Matt. 16:18) in your reference. (Matt. 16:18) proves nothing of the sort. Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build my church" Future. When do you say the Church of Jesus Christ began?

Explain (Eph. 3:2). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" What dispensation?

Explain (Eph. 3:-3-6) "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery....Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it is now revealed...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" If the Church wasn't known in other ages, and to Paul it was revealed by Christ, when did the Church begin? See also, (Eph. 3:9) "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God...."

No, Christ invented the new Message. "Whom say ye that I am" (Matt. 16:15) And upon that Christ will build His Church, that one Body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile. A new message for a new age of grace.

Lees

The KJV translates the Greek word οἰκονομία as dispensation. Other translations use administration or stewardship. For me, understanding that Paul had been entrusted with the message, he was then also held responsible for proclaiming that message, which we know he did.

We know from Paul's testimony Jesus communicated with him while he was persecuting disciples of Jesus. He was not given a new message. His message was the kingdom. We note in Galatians 2 that after 14 years compared his gospel with those in Jerusalem and discovered both were teaching the same gospel.

Acts 20 shows us his message was that of the Kingdom.

1 Corinthains 4 shows us that the kingdom is one of power and not a lot of talk. Roman 14 tells us his idea of the kingdom was not dietary, but justice/righteousness, peace and joy.

[Chuck Naill]

Regarding Paul's message and those to whom he taught, Acts 20.

“You yourselves know how I lived among you all the time from the first day that I set foot in Asia, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which befell me through the plots of the Jews; how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the Spirit, not knowing what shall befall me there; except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. "

(Acts 20:25) says "kingdom of God" Not just kingdom.

It is a brief message of Paul's gospel to the Church. It centers on the Person of Jesus Christ. The Kingdom here is the Kingdom of God. As I have said before, when one is saved and brought into that new body of believers, the Church, he is in the Kingdom of God. Not to be mistaken for the Kingdom preached to Israel where Israel is saved and Christ rules physically on earth, in Israel, and in Jerusalem.

In other words, Paul is not preaching the Kingdom of Heaven that is offered to Israel. He is preaching of the Kingdom of God of which the Church is part of.

And Paul's message and Gospel are not found in one verse, but in all of his epistles. And in all, he preaches faith in the Person of Christ. See (Rom. 1:15-17) "So , as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of th gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

(Rom. 3:21-22) "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Faith in the Person of Jesus Christ brings eternal life and salvation.

Lees

The Greek text does not include "of God" in Act 20:25.

It may be brief but that doesn't indicate the message was something else. Throughout the New Testament the writers use several ways of describing the same things. Jesus referred to the Kingdom as a field with a treasure or a pearl of value. From a practical perspective, it would make no sense to have several messages, one for the Jewish people and another for non-Jewish. Plus, the early followers of Jesus were Jews as well as Samaritans, and not ethnic groups. That was exactly as Jesus said it would be.

Isn't you who use one verse in Leviticus to decide that God invented slavery? Why protest one verse that clearly shows that Paul's message was the Kingdom?

Being right with God by his grace to us does not mean we should ignore loving him with all we have and our neighbors as we love ourselves. When we love others, we aren't trying to earn God's favor. We are fools not to learn to do what Jesus prescribed. For example, when you think about race as you do and call Ted your enemy, it is doing something destructive inside your soul. You have your sins forgiven, but there is no fruit of the Spirit. Instead of love there is anger and contempt.

The idea of doing what God said is nothing new, "Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors.", Deuteronomy 8. We don't do what God says to be his, but to learn to live well or have a good life and be the sort of person who does good things. Again, we are not earning anything. Grace isn't opposing to action. Unfortunately, we have confused this so that some Christians will say they "aren't perfect, just saved". Forget perfection. We don't love our children because they obey. We tell them how to live because we love them.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1347)

No, you haven't answered all the questions I asked. Go back to (1342). Answer my questions concerning the the message of Paul, the message from Adam to Moses, the message from Moses to Christ, the message of the Kingdom, the message of the Church. And give me the chapter and verse in the Bible of each message.

And, how did Jesus reveal His called out ones in (Matt. 16)? Chapter and verse.

And you have never answered my question, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh....Deity...the God/Man? Because you refuse to answer these, and the way you use the Bible, I assume you do not believe these. But you can clear it up by answering directly.

Just because there is disagreement of the 'when' of the Tribulation doesn't mean the Bible isn't clear that there will be a Tribulation. And through your method of interpretation, everything is muddy in the Bible, which is why you seldom give the Bible reference to what you say. When one interprets the Bible, through the normal/literal method, the timing supports the pre-Trib interpretation. That it occurs after the Rapture of the Church.

I assume you meant (Matt. 16:18) in your reference. (Matt. 16:18) proves nothing of the sort. Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build my church" Future. When do you say the Church of Jesus Christ began?

Explain (Eph. 3:2). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" What dispensation?

Explain (Eph. 3:-3-6) "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery....Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it is now revealed...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" If the Church wasn't known in other ages, and to Paul it was revealed by Christ, when did the Church begin? See also, (Eph. 3:9) "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God...."

No, Christ invented the new Message. "Whom say ye that I am" (Matt. 16:15) And upon that Christ will build His Church, that one Body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile. A new message for a new age of grace.

Lees

The KJV translates the Greek word οἰκονομία as dispensation. Other translations use administration or stewardship. For me, understanding that Paul had been entrusted with the message, he was then also held responsible for proclaiming that message, which we know he did.

We know from Paul's testimony Jesus communicated with him while he was persecuting disciples of Jesus. He was not given a new message. His message was the kingdom. We note in Galatians 2 that after 14 years compared his gospel with those in Jerusalem and discovered both were teaching the same gospel.

Acts 20 shows us his message was that of the Kingdom.

1 Corinthains 4 shows us that the kingdom is one of power and not a lot of talk. Roman 14 tells us his idea of the kingdom was not dietary, but justice/righteousness, peace and joy.

Administration or stewardship are other words that can be used for 'dispensation' They describe a dispensation. And Paul was given a dispensation of grace. (Eph. 3:1) But that dispensation given him was unknown at any other time. (Eph. 3:5) It was hid since the beginning of the world. (Eph. 3:9) So Paul was given a new message. How can it be the same message yet never known before as the Bible says?

(1 Cor. 4:20) and (Rom. 4:17) is representing the Church in the Kingdom. And one comes into the Kingdom of God by being placed into the new Body, the Church, through the new message that Paul preached. In other words, all of what Paul preached was to the Church in the Kingdom. The Gospel of the Kingdom that John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples first preached, was the Kingdom offered to Israel alone. Israel and the Church are two different bodies of believers. Both in the Kingdom, but under different laws and relationship to God. And at present the Kingdom offered to Israel, has been removed. And the Church will represent the Kingdom in mystery form. (Matt. 13)

Lees

[Lees]

Regarding Paul's message and those to whom he taught, Acts 20.

“You yourselves know how I lived among you all the time from the first day that I set foot in Asia, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which befell me through the plots of the Jews; how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the Spirit, not knowing what shall befall me there; except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. "

(Acts 20:25) says "kingdom of God" Not just kingdom.

It is a brief message of Paul's gospel to the Church. It centers on the Person of Jesus Christ. The Kingdom here is the Kingdom of God. As I have said before, when one is saved and brought into that new body of believers, the Church, he is in the Kingdom of God. Not to be mistaken for the Kingdom preached to Israel where Israel is saved and Christ rules physically on earth, in Israel, and in Jerusalem.

In other words, Paul is not preaching the Kingdom of Heaven that is offered to Israel. He is preaching of the Kingdom of God of which the Church is part of.

And Paul's message and Gospel are not found in one verse, but in all of his epistles. And in all, he preaches faith in the Person of Christ. See (Rom. 1:15-17) "So , as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of th gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

(Rom. 3:21-22) "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Faith in the Person of Jesus Christ brings eternal life and salvation.

Lees

The Greek text does not include "of God" in Act 20:25.

It may be brief but that doesn't indicate the message was something else. Throughout the New Testament the writers use several ways of describing the same things. Jesus referred to the Kingdom as a field with a treasure or a pearl of value. From a practical perspective, it would make no sense to have several messages, one for the Jewish people and another for non-Jewish. Plus, the early followers of Jesus were Jews as well as Samaritans, and not ethnic groups. That was exactly as Jesus said it would be.

Isn't you who use one verse in Leviticus to decide that God invented slavery? Why protest one verse that clearly shows that Paul's message was the Kingdom?

Being right with God by his grace to us does not mean we should ignore loving him with all we have and our neighbors as we love ourselves. When we love others, we aren't trying to earn God's favor. We are fools not to learn to do what Jesus prescribed. For example, when you think about race as you do and call Ted your enemy, it is doing something destructive inside your soul. You have your sins forgiven, but there is no fruit of the Spirit. Instead of love there is anger and contempt.

The idea of doing what God said is nothing new, "Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors.", Deuteronomy 8. We don't do what God says to be his, but to learn to live well or have a good life and be the sort of person who does good things. Again, we are not earning anything. Grace isn't opposing to action. Unfortunately, we have confused this so that some Christians will say they "aren't perfect, just saved". Forget perfection. We don't love our children because they obey. We tell them how to live because we love them.

No, it is there. Your modern text, an inferior Greek text, has taken it out.

Just like the writers of the Bible use different words to describe different things. When the purpose of God changes, then a different message goes with it. God purpose for Israel and God's purpose for the Church are not the same. Your talking about the 'Mystery form of the Kingdom' once the offer was taken away from Israel. (Matt. 13:10-11) The Jews no longer were given to understand what God was doing with the Kingdom. Those parables don't represent the Kingdom offered to Israel at the beginning of Jesus and John's ministry. They represent the mystery form of the Kingdom in this age of grace, which pertains to the Church, not Israel.

I used several verses to show that God instituted slavery and that slavery is man's natural condition between man and God. Your error is taking the Kingdom message to Israel and attributing it to the Church. Israels relationship to Christ in the Kingdom is Christ as King. The Churches relationship to Christ in the Kingdom is as a Bride. (2 Cor. 11:2) (Eph. 5:22-25)

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1347)

No, you haven't answered all the questions I asked. Go back to (1342). Answer my questions concerning the the message of Paul, the message from Adam to Moses, the message from Moses to Christ, the message of the Kingdom, the message of the Church. And give me the chapter and verse in the Bible of each message.

And, how did Jesus reveal His called out ones in (Matt. 16)? Chapter and verse.

And you have never answered my question, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh....Deity...the God/Man? Because you refuse to answer these, and the way you use the Bible, I assume you do not believe these. But you can clear it up by answering directly.

Just because there is disagreement of the 'when' of the Tribulation doesn't mean the Bible isn't clear that there will be a Tribulation. And through your method of interpretation, everything is muddy in the Bible, which is why you seldom give the Bible reference to what you say. When one interprets the Bible, through the normal/literal method, the timing supports the pre-Trib interpretation. That it occurs after the Rapture of the Church.

I assume you meant (Matt. 16:18) in your reference. (Matt. 16:18) proves nothing of the sort. Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build my church" Future. When do you say the Church of Jesus Christ began?

Explain (Eph. 3:2). "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" What dispensation?

Explain (Eph. 3:-3-6) "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery....Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it is now revealed...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" If the Church wasn't known in other ages, and to Paul it was revealed by Christ, when did the Church begin? See also, (Eph. 3:9) "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God...."

No, Christ invented the new Message. "Whom say ye that I am" (Matt. 16:15) And upon that Christ will build His Church, that one Body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile. A new message for a new age of grace.

Lees

The KJV translates the Greek word οἰκονομία as dispensation. Other translations use administration or stewardship. For me, understanding that Paul had been entrusted with the message, he was then also held responsible for proclaiming that message, which we know he did.

We know from Paul's testimony Jesus communicated with him while he was persecuting disciples of Jesus. He was not given a new message. His message was the kingdom. We note in Galatians 2 that after 14 years compared his gospel with those in Jerusalem and discovered both were teaching the same gospel.

Acts 20 shows us his message was that of the Kingdom.

1 Corinthains 4 shows us that the kingdom is one of power and not a lot of talk. Roman 14 tells us his idea of the kingdom was not dietary, but justice/righteousness, peace and joy.

Administration or stewardship are other words that can be used for 'dispensation' They describe a dispensation. And Paul was given a dispensation of grace. (Eph. 3:1) But that dispensation given him was unknown at any other time. (Eph. 3:5) It was hid since the beginning of the world. (Eph. 3:9) So Paul was given a new message. How can it be the same message yet never known before as the Bible says?

(1 Cor. 4:20) and (Rom. 4:17) is representing the Church in the Kingdom. And one comes into the Kingdom of God by being placed into the new Body, the Church, through the new message that Paul preached. In other words, all of what Paul preached was to the Church in the Kingdom. The Gospel of the Kingdom that John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples first preached, was the Kingdom offered to Israel alone. Israel and the Church are two different bodies of believers. Both in the Kingdom, but under different laws and relationship to God. And at present the Kingdom offered to Israel, has been removed. And the Church will represent the Kingdom in mystery form. (Matt. 13)

Lees

If you have a responsibility for doing something, you administer or you steward the project. Yes, you could say you dispensed the project. It does not indicate anything new. Paul was not saying he had been given a new message, and this can be understood by his communications I mentioned when he communicated with those in Jerusalem. Furthermore, at the time, the same message was being given in Jerusalem as Paul was giving in Asia and other ethnic groups. This means the message to Israel and the Gentiles are the same and that the Holy Spirit was saying the true Israel are those who embraced Jesus as Messiah.

There is no Biblical validation of "two bodies of believers" simply because from the beginning, both Jew and non-Jew were hearing and responding to the same message. The KOG is what God is doing. We enter into what God is doing.

When we tell someone a story, we work to use language that communicates so that hearer understands what we are saying. Paul was saying in Acts 20 that he had been true in communicating the message that Jesus gave him. That message would have been the option to enter into what God is doing by apprenticeship to Jesus whereby we are plunged into the community of the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit of Jesus using Paul's language. By becoming Jesus' student, we learn to do what he prescribes.

[Lees]

@Chuck Naill: concerning post #(1357)

But the dispensation of Grace was completely different than the dispensation of Law under Moses. It definitely indicated something new. See (John 1:17) "For the Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." Does that indicate something new? Of course it does. And that Gospel of Grace and Truth were given to Paul to give to the Church. The Law was a dispensation administered by Moses. Grace and Truth is a dispensation administered by Christ through the apostle Paul to whom Christ revealed it, and the apostles and prophets.

I have given you evidence that the Church and Israel are separate bodies of believers. You just ignore the Scripture I give. Until the beginning of the Church there was no Body of Christ. There was no Church of Jesus Christ. There were no Christians. (Rom. 8:9) "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." The believer in the Church has the Spirit of Christ in him due to the coming of the Holy Spirit. Which didn't occur until (Acts 2).

Answer my questions that you ignored, again. (Eph. 3:3-5) and (Eph.. 3:9) say that dispensation of grace was never known before. "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it is now revealed..." "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God..."

If that which Christ revealed to Paul had never been known; if it had been hidden since the beginning of the world, ;but it is 'now' revealed, how can it be the same message? Please answer with Scripture. Chapter and verse. You can't have it both ways. Someone is lying. Is Paul lying. Or are you lying.

And you never answered my question based on your post #(1347) How did Jesus reveal His called out ones in (Matt. 16)? Chapter and verse? Please answer.

And you never answered my question: when do you say the Church of Jesus Christ began? Please answer with Scripture. (Acts 20) is only about the Church in the Kingdom of God. It in no way is about the Kingdom returning to Israel. And proves nothing you are saying.

Lees

[Chuck Naill]

As explained, the message of Jesus was the availability of the KOG by following him. This same message was given to the Apostles including Paul. They repeated, as shown, the kingdom message to both Jew and Greek. There is no difference between Jew and Greek, male and female, slave or free. We know this perspective because Paul said it. So, same message for all.

You’ve complicated the gospel needlessly. There is no need for the Jewish people to wait until a future time to experience this nearness's of God anymore than did the Jews or Samaritans did when Jesus spoke to them. There is good evidence to say that both Jewish and non Jewish persons are now true Israel in the sense they obey God. The idea that God has a special deal for a Jewish person just because they are a Jewish person is without Biblical support.

What’s the purpose of different messages for various people? Had Jesus intended more than one message, he would have given it.

I have answered the questions of interest and provided passages that you could study to decide for yourself to see my reasoning. By this point you should know my interpretations and why. I understand your interpretations and why, but I do not agree. Actually, I cannot reasonably agree. I just read what you think and acknowledge

[Lees]

As explained, the message of Jesus was the availability of the KOG by following him. This same message was given to the Apostles including Paul. They repeated, as shown, the kingdom message to both Jew and Greek. There is no difference between Jew and Greek, male and female, slave or free. We know this perspective because Paul said it. So, same message for all.

You’ve complicated the gospel needlessly. There is no need for the Jewish people to wait until a future time to experience this nearness's of God anymore than did the Jews or Samaritans did when Jesus spoke to them. There is good evidence to say that both Jewish and non Jewish persons are now true Israel in the sense they obey God. The idea that God has a special deal for a Jewish person just because they are a Jewish person is without Biblical support.

What’s the purpose of different messages for various people? Had Jesus intended more than one message, he would have given it.

I have answered the questions of interest and provided passages that you could study to decide for yourself to see my reasoning. By this point you should know my interpretations and why. I understand your interpretations and why, but I do not agree. Actually, I cannot reasonably agree. I just read what you think and acknowledge

I have heard your explanations which fail when compared to the Scripture, the Bible. But then, what the Bible says, what God has revealed in it, is not important to you. How you can use the Bible, to preach how you think things should be, with God and man, is what is important to you. You preach your gospel and pervert the Scriptures. But since you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, why should it matter to you?

No. You haven't answered the questions of interest. You only answer the ones you think you can manipulate. And when your answers are brought into question, you ignore those questions. When Scripture shows your error, you refuse to answer. Which means, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Bible.

No, I haven't complicated the gospel. The Gospel of the Church in it's simplicity is 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved'. (Acts 16:31) Then comes further instruction from the Word of the Lord. (Acts 16:32) No there is no evidence that Jews and Gentiles are now 'true Israel'. If so, give it. Jesus did give more than one message as I have showed already. You just reject it.

Your 'reason' is corrupt and from fallen man. Yours is a man-made doctrine. Not from God. And it appeals to man. It's as old as the Garden. "Yea, hath God said" (Gen. 3:1) Oh, make no mistake, your doctrine is 'spiritual'. But it is of the 'spirit' in opposition to God. I do not say that lightly. But you refuse to acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God. You refuse to acknowledge Jesus as God the Son. Deity. The God/Man. From the very outset your path leads away from God and Christ.

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

"Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

"As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-9)

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

"For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:11-12)

Lees