What should be the goal of education?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

In a democracy, even a representative democracy, how important is it for the voter to be both informed and capable of making critical evidence based decisions?

Has it ever been the case that voter was thus endowed?

That is of course simply an irrelevant comment.

The question was "In a democracy, even a representative democracy, how important is it for the voter to be both informed and capable of making critical evidence based decisions?"

If I had been standing right in front of you I would have made the exact same comment.


Q: In a democracy, even a representative democracy, how important is it for the voter to be both informed and capable of making critical evidence based decisions?

A: I don't know. Has it ever happened? If it has, did it make any difference?


Is that clearer now?

Only that the response is still irrelevant.

My answer to your question is transparent. It is followed by two additional questions whose purpose is to elicit data that may enable me to offer a more informed answer.

[bluesea]

In a democracy, even a representative democracy, how important is it for the voter to be both informed and capable of making critical evidence based decisions?

Has it ever been the case that voter was thus endowed?

No, as you can see in our governmental structure. Just look at our election process. Why do we still need Electoral College? Admittedly, an average person of that era were probably not educated nor knowledgeable of worldly affairs enough to make an informed decision but is that so different from how it is now?

The education system has been slowly progressing to educate that "average person" to take up the task, but we have been in a period of regression for at least 25 years. The system is going backwards, in ways that will take decades to reverse if at all.

[RandyA1983]

It seems to me that a student should be interested in gaining knowledge.

[Cookedj]

Some are, others do exactly what they need to graduate and are okay with being ignorant.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I've promoted this speaker a few times. He is dead now, but his message is in my opinion spot on and remains so.

[RandyA1983]

I think the goal of learning is the same for everyone - it's getting all the necessary knowledge in a particular area. If it concerns the legal field, then the student should be interested in studying new laws, all specific branches of jurisprudence, etc., if it concerns medical school. Then the student should, first of all, find out how to prepare for the med school interview. To successfully pass it and enter the school. This applies to absolutely any school or university. A student or a student should understand that he needs education and is interested in it.

[dneal]

I've promoted this speaker a few times. He is dead now, but his message is in my opinion spot on and remains so.

Indeed. Based on the frequent applause, I suspect there are very few teachers (or perhaps education administrators with advanced degrees in "education") in the audience.

Thank you for sharing the video.

[TSherbs]

"The purpose of education"?

Compliance. Very few families want me to send home their children more independent of thought, will, belief, and behavior than when they dropped them off in the morning.

But I try to disappoint in that regard.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Good for you!

The chap in the video talks a bit about how education systems are about conformity and not individuality.

[TSherbs]

Good for you!

The chap in the video talks a bit about how education systems are about conformity and not individuality.

I know that Robinson talk well. We even had it shown to us as part of faculty training.

[kazoolaw]

"The purpose of education"?

Compliance. Very few families want me to send home their children more independent of thought, will, belief, and behavior than when they dropped them off in the morning.

But I try to disappoint in that regard.

Then you are the first liberal teacher to do that with conservative students.

[TSherbs]

Some are, others do exactly what they need to graduate and are okay with being ignorant.

These generalizations apply equally to adults, no? Just substitute "please an employer" for "graduate" and you pretty well some up most of working life. One would hope that most adults would be interested in learning and growth, but we all know actually what a mixture of motivations and intensities of motivations exists out there.

[welch]

Let knowledge grow from more to more; and so be human life enriched.

That is the original motto of where I started college. The school translated this to Latin, and the Latin version is stuck to all the buildings and publications, but I like the original English.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The motto on my University is Sapere Aude - dare to know.

[Chuck Naill]

I've quoted her before, our colleges librarian said that education requires rigor. In these times of false, fake, and out right lies, knowing where to look for information can require time, it requires work. We have to go against the grain because people tend to repeat false information unknowingly.

[TSherbs]

Even the harsh critics of education don't want independent thinking in the young people of America; they want their version of "right thinking." I have yet to meet a parent who would say, "Please have my child learn to think independently of how I think." Especially the fathers. Way too much ego and righteousness involved for us (I am one, too).

All the rest is posture and fulmination.

[Chuck Naill]

I am reading this morning of the Wannsee Conference to plan "The Final Solution". Ironically these were classically educated including those with doctorates. As we discuss education, education without morals is of little value.

[TSherbs]

....education without morals is of little value.

Most everything without ethics becomes dangerous.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


W.B. Yeats

[Chuck Naill]

It appears Lincoln’s center and overarching center was, “all men created equal “.

[Chip]

Doesn't it depend on the needs and capacity of the individual?

For some students, being able to balance a checkbook and fill out an application, along with at least one practical skill (plumbing, carpentry, auto repair) is a good outcome.

For others, a general knowledge of science, history, and literature, to inform their choices as adults.

For the strivers, a detailed course in their chosen field, be it law, history, political science, microbiology, math, geology, linguistics, etc. that qualifies them for a career.