What should be the goal of education?

[Chuck Naill]

Do elite private schools produce leaders or worse? I am reading about a $60k per year tuition school with racist issues they are trying to address.

[Chip]

The elite school pipeline is a European legacy, with English boarding schools such as Eton sending graduates to Oxford and Cambridge with a ticket to the highest levels of government.

In France, the Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA) has graduated most of the recent presidents of France.

In the US, a group of elite prep schools, mostly in the northeast, send disproportionate numbers of graduates to Harvard and Yale, and thence into the upper levels of government and finance.

Tribal culture is not only a feature of the lower classes.

[Chuck Naill]

One of the best things a parent can do is encourage.

Then add persistence..
“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." - Calvin Coolidge

[Mık Joger]

Getting an education is, first of all, a chance to get a prestigious and well-paid job. It's my opinion. I would not miss the opportunity to get a diploma of higher education, even with the difficulties that come along the way. I have the domyhomework4me service https://domyhomework.help/ at hand where you can always turn for help in this case.

[kazoolaw]

Welcome aboard Mik, good to see you here.

[TSherbs]

Interesting article by Isaac Saul (Tangle) on the denial of AP African-American Studies classes for the state of Florida. DeSantis doesn't directly run the state education department, but I am sure that they follow his directives:

I have taught AP English Literature many times. I am not a fan of AP programs in general for several reasons. But rejecting this one while offering dozens of others is political poppycock. Saul lays out his similar conclusion also with arguments from both left and right:

https://www.readtangle.com/florida-a...gle-newsletter

[Chuck Naill]

Interesting article by Isaac Saul (Tangle) on the denial of AP African-American Studies classes for the state of Florida. DeSantis doesn't directly run the state education department, but I am sure that they follow his directives:

I have taught AP English Literature many times. I am not a fan of AP programs in general for several reasons. But rejecting this one while offering dozens of others is political poppycock. Saul lays out his similar conclusion also with arguments from both left and right:

https://www.readtangle.com/florida-a...gle-newsletter

I did a brief examination of the course outline and was impressed that it covers a lot of ground. As is said, "you will know the truth and the truth will make you free". Not that all "truth" is true. Since this is an AP course, would the student be allowed to come to a personal conclusion? I guess there is no way to know.

What is DeSantis' concerns, or are they actual concerns? Given his pandemic actions and words, he seems the sort to "I think, therefore it is".

Sometimes here I'll read someone disparage the BLM movement and compare it to January 6, as if they are equal and the only difference is race AKA, the black people are getting a pass. This says to me that classes like this to be needed so that American students are able to see the differences and learn how forced migration of millions of Africans impacted the nation during its entire history in a negative manner. It also appears how West African's also played a role in the slave trade. I think this latter point is important to understand because of the many and diverse participants in African slavery.

[Chip]

So when does DeSantis start the Confederate Studies classes?

Wonder if he'll hire Marjorie Taylor Greene as a educational consultant? Should be some big bucks in that.

[TSherbs]

And here comes the lawsuit, on behalf of three Florida students: Three Florida Students to Sue for AP African-American Studies Course

[TSherbs]

Here is the State Board of Education's list of six "areas of concern" in this AP curriculum:





I can't begin to tell you how ignorant these objections are. Honestly, the AP students in the lawsuit have a good chance. At least they have a great chance at making these bureacrats and politicians look like ignorant bigots--which is exactly how they are behaving.

I am fairly certain that the persons pushing these "concerns" couldn't even get a B in the course as it is presently structured. They object to bell hooks? They can't even read and understand bell hooks!

[TSherbs]

Here is a sample summary of a few sections of the course. Weekly plans are laid out in more detail; this is part of a unit summary:



This kind of thing is precisely what a college course in AA Studies would be likely to include. These are the top figures in their fields, highly respect academics, writers, and leaders. If the topic is, say, "radical feminism," then you have to read radical feminists, furcrissakes. If your topic is The Russian Revolution, then you have to read Marx and Lenin. Yeah, their ideas are going to be RADICAL. THAT'S THE POINT, Jocco.

If I remember right, Thomas Paine said some pretty radical things that were they excerpted and quoted in this document might bring pause to conservatives worried about "indoctrination." Or maybe not, because he was white and Thomas Paine, otherwise revered by conservatives in favor of small government:

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches–whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish–appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit.

Could a high school senior handle reading this by Paine? Would we object to this level of opinionating? Would we think that a highly qualified 17/18 yr old student would somehow be tainted by this point of view? Should Paine be expunged from a curriculum because he wrote this? Because he thought this?

What a bunch of scared whites in Florida leadership. How embarrassing.

[Chuck Naill]

“Concerns” are laughable. 😂😂

[Chuck Naill]

Education should prepare people to think critically about any topic. It seems some will say, "this will have negative impact". Why not teach the student to be able to hear something and decide for themselves if something is truly appropriate or practical?

[TSherbs]

Education should prepare people to think critically about any topic.

This very purpose and tool is one of the key skills outlined in this (rejected) AP curriculum. In fact, it is listed first.

Do you find it puzzling that the department of education in Florida released a broadside explaining their "concerns" for a rejected AP course? Some political motives there? I've never seen such a thing before over a rejected pilot AP program.

[Chuck Naill]

Education should prepare people to think critically about any topic.

This very purpose and tool is one of the key skills outlined in this (rejected) AP curriculum. In fact, it is listed first.

Do you find it puzzling that the department of education in Florida released a broadside explaining their "concerns" for a rejected AP course? Some political motives there? I've never seen such a thing before over a rejected pilot AP program.

I have previously commented on the "concerns", Ted. I find them frivolous.

I am more concerned, however, that DeSantis et al hold Americans with such distain and intends to keep them ignorant. Even if there are African American history providers that are not entirely accurate or balanced, that information should be available so a citizen can use their critical thinking skills to come to a conclusion. Lord knows that those of us who grew up in American high schools in post-World War 2 were not provided accurate or balanced American histories. We had to learn on our own.

[TSherbs]

Enjoy:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cn70g...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Daily Show parody of the upset over "CRT" in states like Florida and Missouri.

[TSherbs]

Arkansas next (no surprise, I suppose):

Kimberly Mundell, director of communications for the state Elementary and Secondary Education Division, said Friday that the agency has been in contact with the College Board -- the producer of the African American studies course -- to get information about the course in light of Sanders' call for a comprehensive review of instructional materials.

"We will review the information and assess the course at the end of this year's pilot to ensure students are taught factual history and that participation articulates into college credit that is beneficial to students," Mundell said.

[TSherbs]

"We will review the information and assess the course at the end of this year's pilot to ensure students are taught factual history and that participation articulates into college credit that is beneficial to students," Mundell said.

I want to address the two bolded criteria mentioned in the statement above. I am highly suspicious of political appointees who claim to know better pedagogy than the professionals actually monitoring and implementing policy.

(1) "factual history". I am worried that this is a ruse for trying to filter out interpretations that are not in alignment with the wishes of the state and to allow in only those interpretations considered orthodox. "Facts" are rarely in dispute in history classes or history textbooks and curriculum. There is, occasionally, dispute over which "facts" get covered and which don't, and sometimes this effort to include or exclude receives political scrutiny and criticism. But it is the interpretation of events, the manner in which patterns and themes are drawn from the strings of events that typically causes more controversy. Interprettions are made from facts, they are not facts theemselves. Politicians on both sides often intentionally blur or deceive around these definitional differences in order to affect the changes (results) that they want. This is an injustice to the students looking for quality education.

(2) The second bolded phrase is meaningless in itself. I have no idea what it means. "articulate" is the wrong word, and "college credit that is beneficial to students" totally misses the primary "benefit" of AP classes: college credit. If what this man means is that he wants to wait to see if colleges will in fact give a credit for the course, well, fewer colleges now give credit for any of the AP courses because they started losing too much tuiton money to students who wanted to graduate a semester or an entire year early. To refuse ONLY this course on that reason would be cynical and racist (in effect). To refuse to offer ANY AP courses would at least be consistent and based in principle (as I have said, there are other reasons that I object to AP classes, not being discussed here). Perhaps "beneficial," however, means some other insidious form of trying to judge what is orthodox and what is heresy. Yes, Arkansas has an anti-CRT type governor's edict, but this language in this statement is more much vague and pernicious in its potential harm for the exploration (college-level) of sharp young minds.

My AP students were, mostly, among the strongest readers and writers in the school. At least half of them (I generalize here from decades of experience) began their senior year alread writing college-level papers. Some of them wrote papers more incisive than I ever did in all five years of my undergraduate time (yeah, took me five to get out). They were often smarter and more insightful than many teachers. Seventeen and eighteen year olds can be VERY perceptive and eager to be challenged with current cutting edge interpretations. It was my job to introduce them to the more "standard" methods of interpretation AND to some of the more "radical" ones (although, as it turns out, even the more "radical" of contemporary interpretations utilize writings and interpretations expressed hundreds of years ago. Even Queer Theory.) These politicians mucking about in stuff that they have no training in and don't understand will make them look like fools. You watch.

[Chuck Naill]

Lets consider the well-known era of Jim Crow laws toward the two points you emboldened.

The student I suppose would be introduced to racial segregation in Souther US states, perhaps they would learn about Jump Jim Crow, maybe where African Americans couldn't eat at lunch counters. I do remember learning about these historical facts, but what I didn't learn was the impact if had on African Americans. These laws made them feel inferior. It was hostile. This was an era of lynchings, red lining, substandard education, and the basic dehumanizing of people who were just as American as the white people.

I would think that a student going to a state or out of state university, understanding American histories of racial degradation and segregation to be practical in not making the white student appear to be an idiot and uninformed. As we all learned, college life does not suffer some sorts of fools. You might just wind up with a roommate from a different race.

I have to relate an experience this weekend. I watched this wonderful, animated movie with my biracial twin grandchildren. The hero of the movie was a child who had a British accent and was black. When my grandchild was relating the movie to her father, she didn't identify her as black. When I mentioned the movie, the father said she had not identified the character's race. I learned something. For my grandchild, race identification is just not as important when talking about a movie character as it is to me. This is a new generation of student who is experiencing firsthand an America where race is beginning not to be an issue and it has to be because racial history facts and the proper honest interpretations are being lived out by informed Americans who refuse to tolerate the past misinformation.

While the Huckabee types will continue to muddy the waters of truth, they are increasingly losing relevance.

[Chip]

In authoritarian societies, education means indoctrinating children in the beliefs and customs of the dominant power group. A friend who got a great scholarship to Brigham Young University dropped out in his second year, disgusted with the Mormon approach to education, which he described as "memorizing the correct answers."

The present drift in the former slave states (and right-wing states generally) is to mandate a similar strategy: try to reproduce the beliefs and biases of the parents among the next generation, to reinforce the power structure (in this case, white supremacy). Outlaw any material that contradicts the approved version.

This strategy also seems to prevail in the spread of "Christian" schools and also the rise in home-schooling which attempts to insulate children from supposedly harmful influences and ideas. The following is only one example:

Outrage over alleged Nazi homeschooling group in Ohio

Telegram channel reportedly distributed lessons plans which included writing exercises based on Hitler quotes

Adam Gabbatt
Wed 1 Feb 2023

An alleged “Nazi homeschooling group” based in Ohio has been widely condemned, amid reports that it distributed lesson plans which included writing exercises based on quotes by Adolf Hitler.

A couple calling themselves “Mr and Mrs Saxon” established the “Dissident Homeschool” channel on Telegram in 2021, according to reporting by Anonymous Comrades Collective, an anti-fascist research group, verified by Huffpost and Vice. The channel, which has almost 2,500 subscribers, distributes “ready-made lesson plans”, Huffpost reported, including history lessons which praise the Confederate general Robert E Lee as a “grand role model for young, white men” and denigrate Martin Luther King Jr as “the antithesis of our civilization and our people”.

The Saxons were identified by Huffpost and Vice as Logan and Katja Lawrence, from Upper Sandusky, a town of about 7,000 in northern Ohio.

In a statement, Stephanie Siddens, interim Ohio state school board president, said she was “outraged and saddened” by the emergence of the group. “There is absolutely no place for hate-filled, divisive and hurtful instruction in Ohio’s schools, including our state’s home-schooling community,” Siddens said. “I emphatically and categorically denounce the racist, antisemitic and fascist ideology and materials being circulated as reported in recent media stories.”

The emergence of the group has led to calls for a revision of the way Ohio oversees homeschooling. Huffpost reported that parents planning to homeschool must submit “a brief outline of the intended curriculum” and a “list of teaching materials” to the local public school superintendent. “Then, if the ‘home education plan’ meets the basic requirements of state law, the superintendent must excuse the child from public school attendance,” Huffpost wrote.

“But even in states with these types of requirements, there’s little to no enforcement mechanism to ensure that parents are actually teaching the curriculum they submitted to the superintendent.”

Teresa Fedor, a state board of education member, told WVXU News Ohio needed to improve homeschooling regulations. “It’s quite disturbing to realise how easy it was for these parents to sidestep the little requirement that is necessary in the state of Ohio to register with the superintendent,” she said. Fedor called for the Ohio governor, Mike DeWine, to condemn the homeschooling program. A spokesman for the Republican governor said in a statement to Statehouse News Bureau: “Racism and antisemitism are vile and repugnant. Governor DeWine condemns them in all forms.”

Tom Roberts, president of the Ohio National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and a former Democratic state senator, told Statehouse News Bureau he planned to raise the issue with the NAACP national board of directors. “I was shocked,” he said. “I know that there is all kinds of hate and all kinds of anti-American groups out there, but for it to be taught in school is another subject altogether.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e_iOSApp_Other