What should be the goal of education?

[TSherbs]

Why did you even respond? Lol!! I’ve noticed a pattern.

Chuck, I responded on the topic of the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments and what is in them. I don't believe in a god, so I don't want to discuss anything beyond what is written in the text. If you want to have a discussion about God's love for Old Testament prophets, you'll need to have it with someone else. *For me,* there is no god and no god's love, etc. *For me,* you are just projecting your human wishes onto the stories of the Bible, and one can argue that God hates humanity and wants to give it suffering and pain and death for his sadistic amusement as effectively as claiming that God loves humanity. *For me,* there is no God to do any loving or hating, so I don't see any use in having a conversation about God.

But the Ten Commandments are written down for us to see. They do exist and have existed for thousands of years. They are interesting in themselves, for what they discuss. Very interesting set of inclusions and omissions. Even the order of them is interesting, and the fact that Moses is killed before reaching the Promised Land for violating one of them (well, he himself doesn't violate, but his followers do when he does not keep enough oversight over them. According to the story--it is a fiction, of course, but fictions carry meaning too.)

[Chuck Naill]

Why did you even respond? Lol!! I’ve noticed a pattern.

Chuck, I responded on the topic of the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments and what is in them. I don't believe in a god, so I don't want to discuss anything beyond what is written in the text. If you want to have a discussion about God's love for Old Testament prophets, you'll need to have it with someone else. *For me,* there is no god and no god's love, etc. *For me,* you are just projecting your human wishes onto the stories of the Bible, and one can argue that God hates humanity and wants to give it suffering and pain and death for his sadistic amusement as effectively as claiming that God loves humanity. *For me,* there is no God to do any loving or hating, so I don't see any use in having a conversation about God.

But the Ten Commandments are written down for us to see. They do exist and have existed for thousands of years. They are interesting in themselves, for what they discuss. Very interesting set of inclusions and omissions. Even the order of them is interesting, and the fact that Moses is killed before reaching the Promised Land for violating one of them (well, he himself doesn't violate, but his followers do when he does not keep enough oversight over them. According to the story--it is a fiction, of course, but fictions carry meaning too.)

I didn’t pull you into a conversation against your will, Ted. Good grief dude!! At some point it’s not about some one else.

[TSherbs]

I didn’t pull you into a conversation against your will, Ted. Good grief dude!! At some point it’s not about some one else.

I know, Chuck. But the conversation drifted into an area I don't enjoy discussing. ANd then you made some "LOL" comment about my "pattern". That was clearly a slight, which I did not deserve.

So, I thought that I would actually explain myself. And now more personal criticism from you. Please note that I have not made a single criticism of you or your beliefs. I am just explaining why *I* did not want to follow a conversation into the area of what "God" may want or not want, love or not love, etc. I am focusing on *me,* on purpose. These are *my* views, and I own them.

So, once again, nevermind. Let's get back to the topic of the purpose of education: I consider the purpose of education to be the nurturing of psychological and neurological growth, the development of a relevant intellectual skill set for the contemporary society, and the promotion of a challenging intellectual environment for a growth mindset at whatever level a student is currently assessed.

[Chip]

Another less-publicized aspect of home schooling. I'll C&P the first part. Go to the link for the rest.

‘No more skewed history’: why Black families homeschooling grew fivefold

In culturally affirming settings, children have blossomed and US parents are finding no reason to return to public schools

Mario Koran
Thu 9 Feb 2023

Since she began homeschooling her children in Louisiana in the early 90s, Joyce Burges has watched the practice explode in popularity among families like hers.

“Parents nowadays – this woke generation of 25- to 40-year-old parents – their eyes are open. They’re just not having that whitewashed, skewed history any more,” she says.

Back when she started homeschooling, it was against the advice of friends and family who questioned how she could teach effectively without a college degree – only a handful of states require homeschool teachers have a GED or high school diploma. She’d decided to teach her son at home after his principal said he was struggling academically and would need to find a new school. “Here I am, Black woman, and our children are not welcomed into the system. So homeschooling was the only option at that time that we had.”

Though her son wasn’t expelled for behavioral issues, Black students in general have long been overrepresented in exclusionary practices. It’s especially true for boys. Data from the US Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights show that Black boys in 2017-2018 were expelled and suspended at proportions that were three times their proportion of enrollment.

Under a structured regimen of chores and study time, Burges’s son blossomed, and she went on to educate all of her five children at home and co-found, in 2000, along with her husband, the National Black Home Educators organization. She says the organization now serves “hundreds of families a year”, providing them with study plans as well as community.

The homeschooling landscape today is vastly different from what it was when Burges was starting out. According to data from the US Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey, there was a dramatic rise after the start of the pandemic from an estimated 5.4% of school-aged children homeschooling in spring 2020 to 11.1% the following school year. The number of Black families increased more than five times over – from 3.3% to 16.1% – a bigger jump than any other racial group.

There’s no single motivating factor driving Black families to homeschool. But those who spoke to the Guardian described being fed up with a public school system that disproportionately punishes Black children, relies heavily on standardized testing and lacks diverse representation in the literature and history books their children are given. As the number of Black families turning to homeschooling grows, they are simultaneously creating communities that allow Black children to learn in a culturally affirming environment, free from the punitive approach of traditional schools.

Chris Stewart, a parent, education activist and former member of the Minneapolis school board, has for years been a vocal advocate for the importance of creating such educational environments for students – both as a refuge from systemic racism and a means of empowerment. He recognizes that homeschooled students represent only a small portion of the students in the US, but he sees promise in the frameworks Black families are creating through networks and cooperatives.

“While we don’t have robust research to support the idea this is something everybody should be doing, I think we have enough research to say that for many African Americans and people of color, when they put their kids into the safe harbor of learning environments that are created specifically for them, it’s a positive direction to go,” he says.

Burges says she’s met a lot of people who perceive homeschooling as primarily an option for white families, a notion she’s never agreed with. “There were definitely a lot of myths – as though those of us who were homeschooling were ‘Benedict Arnolds’ after Martin Luther King Jr fought so hard for public education. But as parents we didn’t wrap our heads around any of that. We just wanted the best possible education for our son,” she says.

More recently, Burges has encountered more families who are interested in homeschooling not because they’re fleeing public schools, but because they can give their children the educational experience they deserve at home. With more Black families opting in than ever before, children can also find the community they need to thrive.

“Nowadays homeschooling is a much more sophisticated option,” Burges says. “We’re no longer the mom sitting at the kitchen table homeschooling children. You’re seeing moms and dads teaching on cruise ships, grandparents homeschooling kids, families coming together at local parks.”

(cont. at link)
https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e_iOSApp_Other

[Chip]

Good example of Republican distrust of science and the effort to control what's taught.

Bill would ban the teaching of scientific theories in Montana schools

Montana Public Radio
Ellis Juhlin
February 7, 2023

A bill in the state Legislature seeking to regulate science curriculum in public schools got its first hearing Monday. The legislation’s sponsor says by banning scientific theories, the policy aims to prevent kids from being taught things that aren’t true.

More than 20 people testified against Senate Bill 235, concerned that it could keep teachers from including gravitational theory, evolution and cell theory in curriculum.

Mia Taylor is a sophomore at Helena High School. She told the committee, "If we remove scientific theory from science curriculums, what can be taught will be limited. It is the school's job to educate its students."

The bill is sponsored by freshman Republican Senator Daniel Emrich from Great Falls. In his testimony, Emrich said the bill would make sure students are taught what a scientific fact is. "If we operate on the assumption that a theory is fact, unfortunately, it leads us to asking questions that may be potentially based on false assumptions," Emrich said.

A legal note from legislative staff says the bill could overstep the Board of Public Education’s constitutional authority to oversee schools in the state.

The committee did not take immediate action on the bill.

https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/20...ontana-schools

[TSherbs]

That Montana guy doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

[Chuck Naill]

No disciple of Jesus would work to remove science from a curriculum. Science does not threaten Jesus or Jesus threaten science. As J.I Packer noted, the Bible is not a science book. Science books are not books that teach people how to live and have a good life. If someone can point me to where prudence, temperance, fortitude, and justice can be found in a science book, I am interested in obtaining that book.

[Chip]

The bill is pure right-wing messaging, to the effect that any sort of knowledge that contradicts or threatens their beliefs (or the interests of the industries who bankroll this BS) is just a "theory" rather than an established fact. Hence, such deniers (including the infamous Jordan Peterson) always refer to climate change as merely a theory, as if proof was lacking or faulty. Depending on the context, other "theories" include critical analyses of racial bias, U. S. history and often, evolution.

The claims of many religions (e.g. life after death, the existence of heaven or hell, resurrection) are by any definition theories.

[TSherbs]

The College Board CEO is in hot water over his false messaging and apparent appeasement of the Florida Department of Education. The CB is a business selling goods and services to states and schools and families. They've been losing accounts for years as the tides have been shifting regarding the value of its services, and now this.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...tudies-course/

[TSherbs]

A lengthy but interesting Atlantic article on research around the question, Is there any way, broadly, to improve student performance, particularly among the lowest performers (the poor)?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ucceed/480744/

[Chuck Naill]

What does this have anything to do with the topic? Who can define education?

[Chip]

Who can define education?

You obviously have no clue whatsoever.

[Chuck Naill]

Who can define education?

You obviously have no clue whatsoever.

I'm a complete uneducated person. Where did you do your post HS studies?

[Chip]

Utah State (BS, MS), Univ. Wyoming (MA), Stanford (Post-grad fellow).

[Mık Joger]

My main goal in pursuing education is to acquire knowledge and skills that will enable me to make meaningful contributions to society. Although the path may be challenging at times, I always have academicghostwriter.org at my disposal to help me achieve my academic goals. With their assistance, I can focus on acquiring the knowledge I need to succeed and feel confident that I have the support to succeed in my academic endeavors.

[dneal]

Spammer Mik must have been hacked. Posting non-spam comments?

I’m sure it will be edited later.

David, you can’t seem to keep your accounts straight.

[TSherbs]

The College Board is back in the news because it says that it has continued revising its AP African American Studies course curriculum...once again. The College Board is in a tough spot (I don't have sympathy for them, however, to be clear) because they are a company that sells a non-essential product to states and school districts, and the product's value is dependent on a kind of agreement between schools and colleges. It is a kind of house of cards built upon and shared mythology (IMO) that is lucratively rewarding to the College Board. That mythology (that these test scores have any intrinsic value and that the courses follow effective pedagogy) has been teetering over the past 20 years, the ACT has developed a credible rival test to the SAT arm of the CB, and many colleges have found their rewarding of college credits for certain results also to be a dubious policy. Other than being a petty spat with a bellicose governor with national aspirations, there is a more fundamental issue here about what material can and should be in a course in African American studies for a school's strongest, and most dedicated high school students. And, if you agree with the College Board, then this material and the course's standards of rigor should represent a college-level course (typically, 1st or 2nd year college). From my point of view, all the material that I have ever seen, even the "possible" topics and authors, were fully appropriate for a course that would receive college credit. Furthermore, these high school students were likely to work harder in that course than many other 1st year college students in their intro level classes.

[Chuck Naill]

Depending on talent, college rigor is not level, nor should it be. We don't give everyone in the Boston Marathon and participation trophy, just the most talented. Yes, these athletes train hard, but training hard aka rigor, is not why they run a 2 hour marathon.

Another issue about education is that it doesn't require students to think beyond getting a good grade. One could take an African American History course and still be a racist. A business major making an A in a business ethics class can become a Donald Trump type businessperson. The point is the education does not necessarily change how one thinks.

I am sure Bret Kavanaugh was a brilliant student. We know Clarence Thomas was benefitted by skin color, even though his moral choices were suspect. Of course, we don't care if the brain surgeon is a racist or cheat as long as he know where to cut and what to do inside the brain. That said, the brain surgeon deserves the sort of education whereby they learn that being a good person increases their likelihood of enjoying a rich life.

Has the goal of education ever been about producing good people so that they and their communities enjoy rich life filled with goodness? Since all human tragedy begins from the human heart, that's the first place to focus.

[Chuck Naill]

"In our culture our educational system has trained us to want it all laid out, because we’ve had to spit it all back on a test."
Dallas Willard.

[TSherbs]

"In our culture our educational system has trained us to want it all laid out, because we’ve had to spit it all back on a test."
Dallas Willard.

Why did you post this? To agree with it? Disagree with it? Was that *your* experience in school? Your children's experience in school? Was that your college experience?