What is Wrong in the (Fountain Pen) World

[southpaw52]

Personally this is just an example of how derailed some people are and how they hide in the internet world. They seek attention and feel great to receive .

[Flounder]

I'll tell you what's wrong with the fountain pen world; rabid, hysterical hyperbole and ludicrous analogies.

It's like we're all crazed Commu-Nazis tossing the nuclear football around in the last minute of the second half. AND IT'S A DOUBLE HEADER!!!!!!!!!

[TSherbs]

I will agree with him wholeheartedly with his comments on Reddit. ....

I have no stomach for that platform. And I don't understand why anyone engages with it. I consider it highly toxic, regardless of the thickness of one's skin. Why would someone want to swim in a toilet bowl, even if one could guarantee that one would not get sick?

[Wahl]

FP videos bore me to death, so I just ignore them. However I would never think of posting a nasty comment, much less an insult.

But I´m afraid that this attitude is prevalent nowadays "I have an opinion, and I have the right to say it" whatever it is and who cares if I hurt anybody.

Who cares about being polite ?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Bob: Mary is fat, stupid, and ugly!

Susie: Bob, how dare you insult people like that?! Stop immediately!

Jack: Well, well, well... Bob could have expressed himself better, but he's right that Mary would do well to lose a few pounds. It's for her own good. She's putting herself at risk of heart disease and diabetes.

Susie: Jack, don't you see that Bob is simply being abusive? Mary's weight has nothing to do with it, and this is certainly not the time for you to bring this sort of thing up. You should stand up for the person who is being subjected to abuse.

Jack: I said that Bob shouldn't have used that language. But the fact of the matter is that Mary would benefit from losing a few pounds. Besides, it is a well known fact that overweight people expose themselves to abuse when they appear in public. I'm not saying this is how it should be, but it is what it is, and they just need to deal with it. Anyway, I believe I have constructively contributed to this conversation. If you refuse to see it, then we don't have anything more to say to each other.

It may surprise you to know that I do not actually think this way at all. This is a discussion topic. Being free to explore the issue is essential to furthering our understanding of it, and that includes at times taking the unfavourable side of it. I chose to do so in a particular way in order to highlight certain elements in our perceptions.

The predicted result to this statement tends to be along the lines of: he's only saying this to deflect, or, he's using this argument as an excuse to allow himself to be abusive with impunity, or, it's a backing and filling job. None of which is true.


On the subject of criticism, it is not an inherently bad thing - though it is alarmingly often seen as such. For example, my criticism that Stephen Brown reviews too many expensive pens is not a personal attack. It is a criticism of what he does. Similarly, if I comment on his production values, again this is not personal.

Criticism, it is said, is essential to the process of improvement.


I do not and never have supported abusive behaviour, and in general I strive not to be that person. Stephen's blog displays a lack of realistic expectation of the behaviour of internet denizens. I used the word "whining" to drive that point home. Perhaps it was an unwise choice of words - but then who among us has not made such choices (is my unanswerable question). I think I understand his need to vent on the subject, but I can offer no other solutions beyond what TSherbs has so excellently outlined in post #31.

[earthdawn]

My take on it all...

Their are miserable people in this world and they want others to share in that miserable life they lead....

I always make sure to smile and walk my own path... as theirs is one of horror and self absorbed abuse.

[Miss Fountain Pen]

Empty_of_Clouds, I agree that your "criticism that Stephen Brown reviews too many expensive pens is not a personal attack." However:

(a) This is not a proper place to criticize SBRE Brown's videos. The quality of his videos is not the point of this thread. You want to discuss the relative merits of popular pen reviewers? Fine. Start a thread on that. (Actually, I believe there is a thread about that already, and you just need to revive it.) This thread is about a lack of civility and about outright abuse. That has nothing to do with the quality of his videos.

(b) Your criticism does not make sense. SBRE Brown reviews, first of all, pens that he happens to like (and is willing to invest his money in), and second of all, pens that people lend or give him to review. If he's not interested in buying (many) cheap pens, then he shouldn't buy (many) cheap pens. And as for what pens people choose to send him to review, that's largely out of his hands.

It so happens that he and I have rather different pen tastes. He likes oversized pens, especially Italian ones. I like small-to-medium pens, especially Japanese ones. Does that mean that he should review more small-ish Japanese pens? Of course not! He should review what he wants to review. The fact that he doesn't review all that many pens that I am interested in is no way a "deficiency" of his channel. The focus of his channel is determined by his interests, tastes, and preferences, and it shouldn't be any other way. If his interests, tastes, and preferences happen to overlap with yours, then great. If not, then look elsewhere for the information that you need. Simple as that.

[penwash]

I will agree with him wholeheartedly with his comments on Reddit. ....

I have no stomach for that platform. And I don't understand why anyone engages with it. I consider it highly toxic, regardless of the thickness of one's skin. Why would someone want to swim in a toilet bowl, even if one could guarantee that one would not get sick?

Wow, that's a strong opinion on Reddit, are you referring to specifically the 'fountainpens' subreddit or reddit as a whole?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

To take your points (Miss Fountain Pen):

(a) I was merely using these criticisms as examples of the sorts of things people may say, and that the range extends from the outright abusive all the way to the more considered criticism. (I actually watch many of his videos because I do find them interesting.)

(b) I understand that Stephen chooses what he wants to review (mainly). I did say at the time that this was a criticism based on my personal aesthetic. For me a lot of his reviews have no real relevance. Again I was trying to illustrate why it is that certain comments may be made, even if they appear non sequitur in nature. And while I hold to my personal likes and dislikes, you won't hear me shouting for Stephen to change his format. It is merely a comment, and in that context makes perfectly reasonable sense.

The focus of his channel is determined by his interests, tastes, and preferences, and it shouldn't be any other way.

I guess at the heart of this is the simple truth that if you have an open comments section you must expect, given that it is one of the more regrettable aspects of the internet, that there will be a degree of abuse along with praise and well-intended critique.

Alas that it is so.


Although I may discuss the various facets of these issues here on a forum (as that is what a forum is for), you will not find any abusive comment or even negative criticism made by me on anyone's blogs - video or otherwise.

[Anne]

Youtube should have a block feature for reviewers so they have the power to stop abusive people from posting ignorant/hateful comments that only derail useful discussion or questions regarding what the video is about. If they can do it for a "smart"phone, why can't they have it for Youtube?

[Anne]

I selfishly hope that no reviewer disables comments. If they do, then us Genuine fountain pen lovers will be the only ones to lose out.

[TSherbs]

I will agree with him wholeheartedly with his comments on Reddit. ....

I have no stomach for that platform. And I don't understand why anyone engages with it. I consider it highly toxic, regardless of the thickness of one's skin. Why would someone want to swim in a toilet bowl, even if one could guarantee that one would not get sick?

Wow, that's a strong opinion on Reddit, are you referring to specifically the 'fountainpens' subreddit or reddit as a whole?

Oh gosh, Reddit as a whole. This doesn't mean every inch of it. I made the mistake of exposing myself to it a few years ago. Not again.

I say this of youtube as a whole, too. Honestly, I religiously do NOT look down under any videos except in the information box that the channel owner uses to post further info on the vid. I don't ever respond to SBREBrown on youtube; I ONLY do it on his webpage, where I have not once seen an unkind remark.

The vitriol on fpgeeks has once pushed me away for several weeks, but I have found the block function very helpful here (it makes the site tolerable to me and much more interesting). This is just MY point of view, but I am sincere about it.

I have managed facebook to the point where I see very little political, religious, or other social vitriol. When I do, I close the post. A second time it happens, I unfriend or block the user (admittedly, I don't post much, but I check in on it every other day or so).

Negative emotional poison is as bad as arsenic.

[TSherbs]

I selfishly hope that no reviewer disables comments. If they do, then us Genuine fountain pen lovers will be the only ones to lose out.

Lose out in which way? What do you seek in his comments that he should put up with that poison for? The information? Can you not find the same info here or at FPN or in an email to Stephen himself or on his webpage?

[Anne]

I selfishly hope that no reviewer disables comments. If they do, then us Genuine fountain pen lovers will be the only ones to lose out.

Lose out in which way? What do you seek in his comments that he should put up with that poison for? The information? Can you not find the same info here or at FPN or in an email to Stephen himself or on his webpage?

Sometimes someone will mention something useful that they do and it is just another opportunity for me to learn something else. The reviewer isn't the only one that can teach me something, anyone responding can as well. Also, sometimes the reviewer did not cover something and someone asks a useful question that I didn't think of. Just another opportunity to learn.

[bluesea]

So I think we can summarize that there is nothing wrong with the fp world, that is not aready wrong with the world in general?

[TSherbs]

I selfishly hope that no reviewer disables comments. If they do, then us Genuine fountain pen lovers will be the only ones to lose out.

Lose out in which way? What do you seek in his comments that he should put up with that poison for? The information? Can you not find the same info here or at FPN or in an email to Stephen himself or on his webpage?

Sometimes someone will mention something useful that they do and it is just another opportunity for me to learn something else. The reviewer isn't the only one that can teach me something, anyone responding can as well. Also, sometimes the reviewer did not cover something and someone asks a useful question that I didn't think of. Just another opportunity to learn.

Sure. I like information, too, and frequently seek it out. You can get all that on moderated forums where the posters do not have to submit themselves to ridicule (far less often than on youtube).

[amk]

Even given the tendency to trolling that's the case on Youtube, some of the comments on Mr Brown's videos are really interesting - or people asking for help - and it's to the guy's credit that he engages with them. Disabling comments is like going into your local pub wearing full body armour; you may no longer run the risk of being hurt by someone's abuse, but you're not going to get a good conversation that way.

Personally, I have different preferences in pens from Mr Brown, and I don't watch every video he makes - but I have found one or two of his videos really useful, particularly the disassembly line (wish he'd make more of those) and nib smoothing videos.

[Anne]

Even given the tendency to trolling that's the case on Youtube, some of the comments on Mr Brown's videos are really interesting - or people asking for help - and it's to the guy's credit that he engages with them. Disabling comments is like going into your local pub wearing full body armour; you may no longer run the risk of being hurt by someone's abuse, but you're not going to get a good conversation that way.

Personally, I have different preferences in pens from Mr Brown, and I don't watch every video he makes - but I have found one or two of his videos really useful, particularly the disassembly line (wish he'd make more of those) and nib smoothing videos.

Plus, I kind of feel like it is giving in to the trolls too. I would imagine some of them would delight in someone changing their ways because of them or making it harder for the true fountain pen enthusiasts to engage in something we all think is a fun part of life.
I really wish Youtube had a Block feature, like you do on a phone, so individual trolls could be blocked permanently from the reviewers channel or at least individual videos.
It might be tedious, and yes they would still see the comments, but it would not result in people who Support these reviewers being Shut Down.

[DASEFnib]

Methinks it's time for gathering 'round the campfire.....making S'mores....and singing "Kum by Ya".....!!
Can't we all just agree to disagree??
Sincerely,
Donald J. Trump
(Quickly dons Nomex suit and mousse....)

Always try to get the dibs....on fountain pens with EF nibs!!

[Sandy Fry]

I only have a couple things to say.

1) When did Empty_of_Clouds stop referring to himself in the third person???

2) Magnify all that "abuse" a few hundred times and it is just a normal day at work for me!

Also, posting in any online medium leaves you open to negative comments. Easy solution. Don't post, or accept the fact that there are people out there who just love to hide behind a keyboard and get a kick out of leaving nasty comments.

Oh, and I believe a good number of the pens Mr. Brown reviews are sent to him for review. ( someone please correct me if I am wrong )

David