Two-tone open nib pneumatic Sheaffer madness

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I have become fascinated by the two-tone open nib pneumatic Sheaffers. But I am more confused than a baby in a topless bar.

The nomenclature is baffling. White dots and metal caps come and go, eBay and dealer pages do nothing but add to the confusion (Ron Zorn seems to call everything a Sovereign, despite seemingly actually having more Statesman in his stock).

Touchdowns

Sovereign WHAT IN GOD’S NAME? Sometimes metal cap, sometimes not, sometimes white dot, sometimes not. Sometimes larger nib. Sometimes not. Early, Late, Fat & thin. Kill yourself now.

Statesman A White dot model that cost more and was fancier than the Sovereign despite sometimes seeming to be the lesser trim level. Statesman is plastic cap, which seems a downgrade from the Sovereign, if you happen to get one that had a metal cap. Or is Pen Hero just wrong? and the Metal cap Sovereign with the 74 nib is just a Statesmen with a wrong cap?

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sh...MTouchdown.htm

Snorkel pens are a little easier to grasp

Saratoga is sort of an upgraded Admiral, sporting a 2 tone nib that looks a lot like the feathertouch nibs but no longer says feathertouch (odd that they took that off but then left the ‘5’ on the Admiral nibs). Are these #73 nibs? or #74? Non White Dot

Sovereign, is pretty much a Saratoga but with a Metal cap. Also Non White Dot

Statesman is no longer an open nib but is now a Palladium-silver conical nib, plastic cap. It becomes an entry level White Dot Model. Sheaffer. recycling names despite the models really having much to do with each other. They did that with the Crest too.


& nibs. It seems there are the Feathertouch nibs, then the same nib with out the Feather touch on it, a wider #74 nib and and even larger #82 nib, which appears to have appeared at random (Zorn has a pen on his site with a nib that looks like the #82, you can tell because it actually looks too large for the pen).

And let’s not get started on the Tuckaways. Thankfully I hate those and don’t need to sort those out.

Any help grokking this category?

[pajaro]

Thankfully I never got into any of those pens.

[mhosea]

Any help grokking this category?

Would help if I could. The Snorkels have been mapped out quite thoroughly, but I've never sorted out the post-Balance, pre-Snorkel era.

[HughC]

Lol..it's not that difficult !!

The Sovereign only exists as a TD in the TM series. There's no "fat" TD Sovereign, the entry model TD was the Statesman with WD and narrow cap band.

With the TM TD line the entry model Sovereign was added with no WD and narrow cap band on plastic cap. The Statesman remained a WD larger open nib pen using the same cap as the TM TD Valiant.

Now at some point probably near or with the introduction of the Snorkel a metal cap WD Sovereign was introduced ( I also have a plastic cap Sovereign with WD...so ??) with a price of $12.50. In comparison the equivalent Snorkel Sovereign was priced at $10.00. Is there any logical explanation ? Not really, I've speculated that after the decision to only have triumph nib WD Snorkels the metal cap Sovereign was to provide a WD open nib pen. Supporting this is that the metal cap Sovereign came in Snorkel colours not standard ( except black and burgundy) TM TD colours. There's little doubt the price difference helped ensure the quick demise of the metal cap TM TD Sovereign. On the TM TD line the Sovereign nib remained the same on both models, the fatter nib is the Statesman TM TD nib.

See, it's really easy...clear as mud !! The Penhero site is the best for TM TDs....apart from me of course...

Regards
Hugh

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That hurt my brain.

Thank you Hugh. Very much. I will study that.

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IMG_1129.JPG

here the one (Statesman?) I have. PHAT version.

The nib is nice and springy but the tipping is gone and the shape of the tip is odd and unpleasant.
It needs a nib tech at some point to go back into service. Been hoping to score a back up for it. I like these pens.
Esp. the early fat versions.

[HughC]

Yes a first model Statesman.

[stub]

Yes a first model Statesman.

I feel stately when I use it.

I think these nibs are neato looking.

[kirchh]

You're trying to figure out how a pen should look regardless of the series to which it belongs, based on its model name. That won't work; Sheaffer had no dedication to preserving the attributes associated with each model name when it introduced a new series. Instead, simply look at each series (e.g. "fat" TD, TM TD, Snorkel), then within each series, look at the models. It's straightforward when you take that approach. All the models you discuss are well-documented.

The nibs evolved over time; nib designs were added/dropped, and the imprints were updated. Did you have a specific question about a nib?

--Daniel

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The nibs evolved over time; nib designs were added/dropped, and the imprints were updated. Did you have a specific question about a nib?

--Daniel

Yes, thank you. Which pens had the #73 nibs and which had the #74 and how are they different? Also was there a #82 nib in use as well.

Additionally, were there really different Sovereigns during the TD era as show on the penhero page? One White dot and one not, one with a metal cap and one plastic. He labels them "early" and "late" I find that a little hard to believe.

[kirchh]

The nibs evolved over time; nib designs were added/dropped, and the imprints were updated. Did you have a specific question about a nib?

--Daniel

Yes, thank you. Which pens had the #73 nibs and which had the #74 and how are they different? Also was there a #82 nib in use as well.

Additionally, were there really different Sovereigns during the TD era as show on the penhero page? One White dot and one not, one with a metal cap and one plastic. He labels them "early" and "late" I find that a little hard to believe.

73-series nibs (there are several variations) have the narrowest radius (the '3' part of the code) to fit the slender-girth pens. 74-series nibs (again, several variations), have a larger radius and fit 4-girth (standard diameter) pens. There are a few exceptions, but that's the essential difference.

Penhero is correct about the two versions of the TM TD Sovereign.

--Daniel

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Thanks for that. So I'm guessing the nib on the pen in my picture would be the number 74 since it's wider and slightly flatter?

[kirchh]

Thanks for that. So I'm guessing the nib on the pen in my picture would be the number 74 since it's wider and slightly flatter?

That's a larger nib still; a member of the 8 family (I believe it's an 8SH).

--Daniel

[HughC]

Here's the first model Sovereigns that appeared in the 1951 catalogue with the exception of the pen on the right. The right most pen has the remains of a raised WD which makes it a later pen. It's the only pen with the narrow cap band I've seen in the TM line with a WD.
IMG_1722.JPG

These are the final versions of the TM TD Sovereign. Note the standard Snorkel colours and the second picture shows a thinner Snorkel type pencil as opposed to the usual fatter ones.
IMG_1269.JPG
IMG_1268.JPG

Why two different pens in the same line with the same name? I don't have an answer only speculation.
Observations : Snorkel colours, thinner pencil, similiar cap to the Snorkel Sovereign, lower price than Snorkel Sovereign, these WD caps are seen on Snorkels sometimes and the reverse.
I come back to the possibility these where nearly a post TM TD model to offer a WD open nib pen. The price point of $10.00 compared to $12.50 for the Snorkel version is interesting ( I had the prices the wrong way in an earlier post) and probably raised a few questions from buyers as to why the Snorkel didn't have a WD, maybe this is why cap swaps appear. It's not in the 1953 catalog and is fairly uncommon which indicates a short production run. All I can think is that it was a marketing flop as there's little reason to choose this over the Snorkel variant other than a saving. They are quiet good pens to use though, I keep one inked.

Regards
Hugh

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The one I have is a great size and has a nice section (ergonomic win!) and I prefer the TD filler.

But the nib on mine is like a car hood and is flexy but the tip is fubar so I have been searching for a similar replacement.