Vintage Pen Question

[bamapendude]

Ok I am considering adding some Vintage pens in my collection. Perhaps if they are in poor shape trying to renew them if possible. Now I know this is a loaded question and each vintage pen can vary in price based on condition model etc. So here is my question. If I found a vintage Estrerbrook, Wearever, Congress or Pioneer in good condition external wise and the pen function was unknown, how much should I consider the max to get it and try it out? Some of these perhaps are estate finds etc. I know there are a ton of factors but if I run across one at and estate sale or online that catches my eye whats the play it safe price. Or should I avoid vintage fountain pens being a newbie still to this hobby?

Thank You In Advance!

[Pterodactylus]

Vintage pens can be a great addition to your writing experience (in fact personally I prefer vintage ones over modern ones).
But buying a vintage one is always gambling, they are old and time make nothing better, so something may break some time.
On the other hand vintage pens usually are very robust, I use my up to 100 year old Watermans without any troubles, e.g. I also consider the 50s Pelikans as some of the best pens ever made.
Such pens will last several lifetimes and will be still in use when I´ll be long gone.
Also most of the things can be repaired.

As newbie it is definitely a good idea to buy fully restored pens from a reputated seller.
They are more expensive, but you know that you will get a working pen.
Especially if you can't repair pens by yourself and having not much experience judging a pen value and what might be defekt.
Buying a pen in unknown working condition without detailed photos, detailed description and most important no writing sample is always a game, don't do it if you can't afford getting a lemon and loosing your (play) money.

[SIR]

Good luck dude, I literally just placed an order for my first (and only?) vintage pen less than five minutes ago.
Shopping around, I found a lot of difference in levels of description given by dealers and their relative prices; it seems to be an adventure rather than a minefield, but still one should be careful!

Know what you want and are willing to pay before you go looking, and then you will have the measure by which to judge the offerings.

[Kaputnik]

Ok I am considering adding some Vintage pens in my collection. Perhaps if they are in poor shape trying to renew them if possible. Now I know this is a loaded question and each vintage pen can vary in price based on condition model etc. So here is my question. If I found a vintage Estrerbrook, Wearever, Congress or Pioneer in good condition external wise and the pen function was unknown, how much should I consider the max to get it and try it out? Some of these perhaps are estate finds etc. I know there are a ton of factors but if I run across one at and estate sale or online that catches my eye whats the play it safe price. Or should I avoid vintage fountain pens being a newbie still to this hobby?

Thank You In Advance!

If you have already read some articles on repairing simple lever and button fillers, like this one, and know approximately what you have to deal with...

Get a decent 10X loupe for inspecting pens that you find at flea markets, etc.

Assume that you will have to replace the sac, and be prepared to replace the J-Bar in some cases. Cracks in the body of the pen can theoretically be fixed, but try to avoid having to deal with this at first.

Esterbrook was a cut above third tier brands like Wearever. The overall construction is superior, and you can find the easily replaceable screw in nib units separately. Wearever made some interesting and fairly good pens, but in general I'd pay less for them.

Personally, I've had little success finding any vintage pens at local flea markets, yard sales, etc. I've mostly bought on eBay. I've paid as little as $7 for an Esterbrook, and as much as $40, but I'd say that in general I've been willing to go between $10 and $20 for something that looked restorable, up to $30 for something that was already restored. You might want to learn something about the different replacement nibs that are available for these, and base what you're willing to pay partly on the desirability of the nib that it has (again remembering that you can replace it later). Most of my Wearevers cost me less than $10, but I could see paying up to $30 for something rare in really good condition. Of course, you may find some for less than $5.00. If you buy online, sometimes buying a "lot" of pens on eBay is cheaper than getting them individually.

Vintage prices fluctuate quite a bit and I can't guarantee what you'll find. If you haven't restored a pen before, you might want to start with a 3rd tier Wearever or something that you only paid a couple of dollars for. Make any mistakes on it before you move on to the nicer pens.

There are also sellers like Peyton Street Pens, Indy Pen Dance, and Anderson Pens who sell already restored vintage pens. Although you can trust these dealers, you will end up paying more, obviously.

[EDIT] And another thing...

I based the above on the assumption that you'll be concentrating on the cheaper vintage pens at first. Obviously there are many other choices out there. Parker 51s are quite popular, and if you find one of the aerometric filler type, there's a good chance that it will need nothing more that a really thorough flushing to clean out old ink. There are gold nibbed pens from Waterman, Sheaffer, Conklin, Eversharp, and many others. There are filling systems that are easy to restore on your own, and others that may be best sent out to professionals. You can find surprising deals sometimes because nobody else has noticed a pen, and the seller just wants to get rid of it, but don't count on that happening all the time. My best suggestion is to do as much reading as possible about the different models that are out there. A good place to start is Richard Binder's reference pages, but there are many other online resources as well.

[jar]

If you go hunting old pens in the wild get a good lighted loupe; lighting in the places you might find a fountain pen is often nill.

Things to examine carefully.

Is the feed broken?

Is the nib creased?

If a lever filler look at the fulcrum point for signs if stress or warping.

Check threads and feel how the cap goes on and off.

Place pen on a flat surface and roll it looking for signs the body is warped.

Look carefully using the loupe for signs of cracks at any openings and in the section.

Look to make sure all the pieces parts are there. It can be near impossible to find matching end caps as an example.

Finally for pricing. Ask yourself what would be the most you would pay for THAT pen if it were fully restored and then deduct $25.00 (lever fillers) or $40.00 (other filling systems) to get an idea of what you should pay. For example a Sheaffer vac-fill Balance that you would be willing to pay $100.00 for fully restored and that has all the pieces parts should not sell for more than $60.00. An Esterbrook that you would pay $25.00 for if fully restored should sell for under a dollar.

[penwash]

Not all Wearevers are bad, but all the ones with metal caps has been a disappointment for me.
But the more uncommon (in good condition) celluloid ones from the 30's with *real* 14K nib (not Gold Plated) are super cool.

For my pen restoration, I love to get beautiful third-tier barrels in good condition and match it with nice Sheaffer, Waterman, Conklin, Wahl, Biltwel, etc.

There are a lot of them out there and most collectors look down on them, which is good for the rest of us. The result is often time a very pretty pen that writes confidently (some with really good flex characteristics).

[ac12]

$5
And for some pens, that would be too much.
- A broken or corroded nib will cost you $$ to replace. Cost depends on what your replacement nib is.
- A Wearever cartrdige pen without the proprietary cartridge (which is long out of production) is useless w/o a cartridge.
- A Waterman CF cartridge pen without the proprietary cartridge (which is long out of production) is useless w/o a cartridge.

As a 'parts' pen, $5 would be OK.

Bottom line, you have to know something about the pen (its worth), and the potential cost of restoration.

Example a $5 pen + $10 replacement generic nib + $5 replacement J-bar + $2 ink sac + your time to restore/repair the pen. And the time and cost to buy all the replacement parts.
On some cheap Brand X pen, you would have spent more $ and time than you could sell the pen for.

[Runnin_Ute]

I have 5 Esterbrooks - paid from $11 (needed a sac) plus shipping to $39 fully restored including shipping on 4 of the 5. The other was a PIF from a fellow board member. (EoC) The $39 is an outlier as is the $11. The others averaged about $20 plus shipping.

[Hawk]

Esterbrook pens and Parker 51 Aerometric pens are pretty much 'bulletproof'. That would be a good starting point. take the plunge, you won't be disappointed. One vendor that has weekly listings on this site (and other places) is good; I have never been disappointed.

[ac12]

Esterbrook pens and Parker 51 Aerometric pens are pretty much 'bulletproof'. That would be a good starting point. take the plunge, you won't be disappointed. One vendor that has weekly listings on this site (and other places) is good; I have never been disappointed.

The Esterbrook, only after it has been resaced. Resacing an Esterbrook has the same hazards as resacing any lever sac pen, I have 2 failures in my AW $HIT box.

[bamapendude]

Well I am getting my feet wet. Either I will sink or swim. I have purchased 4 Vintage Fountain pens listed to be in very good condition.
#1 a WEAREVER ECLIPSE with a 14k Gold Nib
#2 a Wearever (Green Marbled ) Marked Silver Palladium Alloy USA on Nib
#3 a Penman (Brown) Marked Iridium Tipped USA on Nib
#4 a 1940's Esterbrook Fountain Pen with a 1555 Nib

That is the info from the descriptions. #2 and #3 was in a set of pens with a Shaeffer ball point pen. The seller refereed to the Nibs as Tips so I assume seller is not well versed in FP terminology.
Anyhow I hope to get these in and look them over well and perhaps disassemble them, ultrasonic clean them, polish them and install new sacs in all of them. As far as if the nibs are worth salvaging I guess that will be seen once they arrive and are inspected.

By the way 4 pens 5 if you count the ball point sheaffer in the deal. Probably trash since it appears a advertisement pen, set me back 50.00 shipped so that averages under $12.50 per fountain pen basically. I hope I remained in the safe zone. Not sure what a 14k Nib does to the value of the #1 Wearever pen but it was listed in very good condition, from the pics it looks nice.