So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

[migo984]

Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees... but I did clearly stated my intentions in the new members forum. Nobody told me to bugger off from here.

My main problem on FPN was not people like Claudio. But I felt very disturbing that the forums owner and moderators did not change anything and only repeated that everything was fine and according to the boards rules. After 8 years of active sharing of knowledge and pen pictures I felt tricked.

But I can promise that I will not flood your sales forum here. Commonly, I have one or two pens for sale at month. Hope this is okay.

C.

I very much hope you do continue to sell your pens here Christof. I still very much enjoy writing with the Pelikan Silvexa I bought from you

[stub]

Last year I went on a sellathon and got rid of a bunch of pens that just weren't getting used and a few to just raise some $. That's done now. I probably sold 20 pens or so and used that pay off some things and to get 3 killer pens on that have been regularly used: An Aerometric Duofold from Carlc that sees lots of action and which I adore, a lovely desk set from mhosea that I currently use w/o the base, and a really sweet Sage Green PdAg Snorkel Statesman which graces my pocket currently, which I acquired from gregamckinney. I've been pretty happy as an FPN refugee here and really had mostly good luck on the classifieds minus one or two price policing episodes I could have lived without. Note tho those three names and you'll also note they are regular contributors here. However I have sold to folks on here with very few posts. And that has also so far gone without a hitch. I know a lot of folks come here just for the classifieds.

I dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere here to boot.

Stub

[stub]

Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees...

I'm glad to see you here now. I've always appreciated your contributions especially all those rich and wonderful posts on Lamy 27 pens. I hope to see you post here more often whatever it may be.

[Laura N]

Last year I went on a sellathon and got rid of a bunch of pens that just weren't getting used and a few to just raise some $. That's done now. I probably sold 20 pens or so and used that pay off some things and to get 3 killer pens on that have been regularly used: An Aerometric Duofold from Carlc that sees lots of action and which I adore, a lovely desk set from mhosea that I currently use w/o the base, and a really sweet Sage Green PdAg Snorkel Statesman which graces my pocket currently, which I acquired from gregamckinney. I've been pretty happy as an FPN refugee here and really had mostly good luck on the classifieds minus one or two price policing episodes I could have lived without. Note tho those three names and you'll also note they are regular contributors here. However I have sold to folks on here with very few posts. And that has also so far gone without a hitch. I know a lot of folks come here just for the classifieds.

I dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere here to boot.

Stub

You know what? I've just about had it with crud like this. What Sammyo is talking about, the rude atmosphere here, this is an example. I just am at the end of my rope with this place. I've put up with complaints and rude comments when I tried to do something nice, at my expense, for folks here. I've put up with people who are outright rude to me, even in that context, and I've never answered back, because I was taught to be polite. But you know what, inside, there's a part of me that thinks, I shouldn't have to put up with that. The rudeness tax for doing something nice, or for having opinions about fountain pens or ink? No one should have to pay that. People shouldn't be outright rude and oppositional to others, just because this forum is unmoderated, and they can. People shouldn't try to troll others. If you can't take it when someone has a different opinion about pens or inks, maybe you shouldn't interact with others, ever. If you like to dish out "rough and tumble" opinions to others, you shouldn't freak out if someone politely responds to you, not in a rough and tumble way.

As for you, dude, it actually wasn't pricing police on my part to ask you if the pens you were ambiguously selling as a lot were priced separately or together -- it was an actual question because I had bought those same pens for 1/3 the price, and they were currently offered (all over eBay) at 1/3 the price. So since you were selling three and listing only one price, I honestly wondered whether your price was for all three. Then when someone else pointed that out -- not me, because I was being super polite -- you possibly pretended to a "whoops, really, I had no idea" reaction and said people should buy it elsewhere. So, since I'd gotten three or four PMs asking where to buy from, I took you at your word. Not realizing you might have been just pretending. At which point, you proceeded to treat me quite rudely. Well, dude, I didn't respond to that, so as not to accelerate and contribute to the negativity that came from you. But that doesn't work with you, does it? You just keep bringing it up.

I never accused you of anything. But you keep messing with me and others. That makes it look like you were and are angry. So know this: from my side, I had assumed only positive things about you. I assumed your price for fellow members was the eBay price, not three times the eBay price. Then I assumed you were being honest when you said you wanted members to buy it at the lower price. And I innocently reacted out of those assumptions. At which point you blew up about it. So that tells me my assumptions, which put you in a good light, were wrong. I overestimated you. I assumed the best about you. You assumed the worst about me, you blew up in public at me, you smeared me and apparently you keep resenting it because you keep bringing it up. That difference in assumptions about other people is one difference between the two of us. The other is that I have the self-control to not respond rudely. Or to ask for an apology. But your behavior to me was rude and shoddy, and that continues. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Here's what I think: you may claim to "dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere," but really you just like to dish it out. You can't take it. You can't take even someone's innocent question.

Well, you know what, you win. All of your ilk do. Enjoy your rough and tumble, no holds barred, overcharge others forum. I've come up against this in the past, and I've kept trying after a short pause, but today I don't know. I'll probably be happier to take myself elsewhere and stay there. I feel like what I try to be, how I try to behave, has no place here. I feel like people don't even like me here, with a few signal exceptions. When others attack me or bitch or get mad at me, or misunderstand, I ignore them or try to explain. And all that gets me is .... I really don't know. Nothing. And I don't like feeling maltreated.

I'm more than "also a regular contributor here." I've been here longer than you, I send people stuff, for free, I sell things at less than the eBay price. I try to participate positively. But I don't blow my own horn about it -- I don't ask for praise. I don't ask for thanks (and I surely don't get it). On the other side, I am female, and I do occasionally express my opinion, and maybe that rubs some people the wrong way. Fine. I don't need to be where people don't care for me. Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

[stub]

I am a little mystified and dismayed by this reaction. I am sorry you are so bent out of shape. I genuinely dig you and your contributions here and had no idea you felt this way and specifically about me. This is a lot to absorb and I am not even sure how to respond except to say that I am dismayed and saddened to see how passionately angry you are and see such a characterization of my overall behavior on this board.

[stub]

Ive read this post a few times now. I can't even begin to tell you how it makes me feel. It is so strongly worded and pointed directly at me. Any response I would give would take a really long time and opens up the possibility for further problems I suppose. I am really sorry to read this. It makes me sad. That particular thread for sure was not my finest moment (for the record I wasn't referencing that particular thread exclusively) but i had no idea you were so bothered by it and that it was part of an overall cumulative effect you feel here. I hate that I could have contributed to that but I think, while not perfect, I have been a pretty good overall member here I am not at all sure what other transgressions there might have been but yeah. wow. Honestly taken aback by this and my feelings about it are wide ranging and complex from hurt, mystified, angry, apologetic ... yeah wow. This is really something. I am truly sorry to read this and really disturbed.

[sharmon202]

Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance?

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?

[penwash]

Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance?

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?

Here's an idea, why don't you check my posting history first before you ask me that question?
As I said above, I have posted questions similar to what I mentioned above from time to time,
and I am actively (and hopefully positively) participating in this forum.

How about you? Any questions in your mind that you'd like discuss with the people in this forum?

[carlc]

Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance?

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?

He has: "I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am...."

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

[stub]

overcharge others forum.

I must however, as a seller at least defend my overall reputation since you imply that I am gouging folks. Here are recent completed adds and prices. Judge for yourself. EMS and air from Korea is a non trivial expense. Most of these came with extras.

Pelikan M1000 B Nib [Black & Gold box and papers] $440 shipped EMS express with tracking.
2-pack: Platinum PTL-5000 & TWSBI 580 AL and 3 pack 15ml Iroshizuku ink $69
PFM II Italic nib (Blue) listed at $250 possibly sold at that or a bit less can't recall the final price.
4 pen starter pack + extras (2 safari, 2 pilots, 3 diamine 30ml and a Herbin 10ml $50 shipped
Kaweco Al Sport RAW++ camping/fishing/hiking bundle (ink, converter, clip notebook and cover $70 Shipped)
Parker 51/61 Double set! $110 + actual shipping (forgot what that was but the buyer payed shipping in this advert)
MB Ink of Love, MB Jonathan Swift ink (traded away)
Lamy 2000 F nib box & papers, $115 shipped
USA Waterman C/F Set w/ box, papers, 6 cartridges. Needs repair. Given away (buyer payed shipping)
Faber-Castell Ondoro Smoked Oak box, papers, converter $80 shipped
(my one mistake, I forgot to include the “extra” for this sale, still sorry about that)
1963 OMAS VS $225.00
English Waterman Set - 503 soft flex nib box & papers. $75 + actual shipping.
4 Parker UK Duofolds All 4 pens, $70 shipped.
PFM V B nib ($200)
1963 Sheaffer Imperial Lifetime TD listed at $100. I ended up keeping it.

NONE Of those look like overcharges. some at market prices and a few look like genuine bargains. As for those LAMY pens. I waited on line for hours and paid full KOREAN retail for them. If some folks on eBay had them fall off the back of a truck and could sell them at way below that then power to them. I hope you got in on that. I for one am not selling them at a loss. I was not able to sell them and I still have most of them. I gave a few away as gifts. I would have lowered the prices some but in frustration just pulled the ad. But really it isn't my goal to re-litigate that but rather give broader context. These ads above are not cherry picked either. Look at my profile lest you think that.

[jar]

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The french hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!!

And that seems to sum it up.

[Jon Szanto]

FULL STOP

Ladies and gentlemen,

I had no intentions, nor no imaginings, that this would be the outcome of my original query. I did say "discuss"; I didn't think I was going to open wounds.

If there are any of you who have been on this forum for more than a few months, you will know me from my history of posting. You will know my views on how I believe people should treat each other in a community such as this, including both care and candor, passion and respect. I am sorry to see that there is even a small consensus that the waters of dialogue had devolved on FPG, more than something which used to ruffle only a few sensitive souls.

I now have two large thoughts in mind (and, Hell's Bells, this is after I stayed up until nearly 3:00 a.m. to write up my SF Pen Show report to post, to make happy vibes!):

1. Take a step back and disengage. If by simply asking these questions I've raised the temperature of your forum experience, give it a bit of a pause before posting.
2. I once again propose that while a forum can stumble along with literally no hand guiding it, I most certainly return to my position that a wise hand on the tiller could make this all so much better. A hand we don't have, I am sorry to say.

So, yeah. Let's maybe move into a reflective period, turn it down a notch or seven, and see what we can come up with. I'll make every effort to be more involved and see how things go. I don't want to see my preferred place of pen repose to go away, in flames.

Peace. Seriously.
Peace,
Jon

[TSherbs]

.... Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of and will not question or comment on. Let me say that I agree entirely with you that the bigger problem around here, when it occurs, is the nature and tone of some of the exchanges, and the lack of moderation to keep it civil (what I would define as polite and respectable). But I will add only that this is true of some members here and not all. And, again, I find the block/ignore function useful for that. There are some nice people around here, and I consider you among them. But if, in balance, you find more poison here than manna, then of course you should go. But, for the public record, there will be one less decent and intelligent and experienced voice around here if you go, and the loss will be the rest of ours.

[Hawk]

.... Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of and will not question or comment on. Let me say that I agree entirely with you that the bigger problem around here, when it occurs, is the nature and tone of some of the exchanges, and the lack of moderation to keep it civil (what I would define as polite and respectable). But I will add only that this is true of some members here and not all. And, again, I find the block/ignore function useful for that. There are some nice people around here, and I consider you among them. But if, in balance, you find more poison here than manna, then of course you should go. But, for the public record, there will be one less decent and intelligent and experienced voice around here if you go, and the loss will be the rest of ours.

There are many nice people on this board. While, at times, a post or thread rubs me the wrong way, I tend to ignore it and let it pass. Laura, knowing you from the pen club, you are good for this forum.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I totally agree with what Laura has said. She is among the very few members here that I much regret not having the opportunity to meet in person.

[stub]

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

[Jon Szanto]

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

I have a thought: maybe just give it a bit of space.

I recently had an encounter in another venue that took me aback. Completely out of left-field, made worse that it was a moderator that instigated it. I took a good while off of posting there, and have only slowly come back. I hope to find a time in the future when I can come to terms with this person and find a satisfactory resolution, so that I am not left with the feelings that I took away from it. I hope that this could happen in your case, as well. One never knows, for certain, the forces coming to bear on the other party, and sometimes time is the best solution to these problems. No guarantee, just a wish on my part.

Not to mention that the turns this thread have taken have given me pause, as well.

[TSherbs]

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

I find you equally cordial and helpful, with some of it coming behind the scenes as well. I don't begrudge you at all, but I don't look at a lot of threads. But, yes, if this place brings you down (the "poison"), then no one should stick around to feel bad. I went away for months a while back. We all take breaks. And tomorrow my teaching starts back up full force, so I am about to be swamped and not around much. The way it is. Don't take this too personally or seriously. It's just an internet forum. It's more important to practice your "being" where you are in the flesh. Blessings!

[Empty_of_Clouds]

@Stub, I was speaking of the general combativeness (oppositional nature, to paraphrase Laura) and level of rudeness that seems popular here. This is often backed up by the whole "freedom of expression" argument, as if that somehow exempts one from courteous or civil behaviour.

My apologies, I should have made that clear. Obviously I have no idea or involvement in the incident that has been raised specifically.

[penwash]

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

Stub is very cordial and detailed and polite in all the post here that I've read.
By no means I'm claiming that I read each one of them, but I find it hard to believe that Kevin (stub) has this "rude" side.

This actually reminded me of someone here who mistook me for a troll when I first came onboard
(And no, I don't want to remember who that was, it's water under the bridge).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Kevin, don't let it bug you too much.