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Thread: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Ok, just have to check on this...

    Yeah, yeah, it's been a hectic few months out here in Reality World, and I apologize for not being a more active participant. In a perfect world, I'd start a new thread every day and respond to the dozens of threads popping up about pens, inks, papers, fun, writing, life, life with pens, more pens, and other pen stuff.

    But now, when I look at the "What's New?" stream, it seems like all I see are things FOR SALE. And a whole lot of them by people with one or few posts to their names, very obviously people who have come to the FPG forum for no other reason than to sell something. Not get involved. Not chat. Not talk about the things I mentioned above, just SELL.

    Is this because of the hose job done on the FPN sales forums by virtue of the perfect storm of weirdly set up rules and that Claudio guy? Is it just the rep that FPG is an easy place to post thing and gets a lot of sales? Are people tired of eBay and they are dumping stuff here first?

    I just don't get it.

    I've always been glad for a sales area, but I've always liked that it was primarily frequented by people who were active in the forum itself. If the trend continues, and we have less community and more commerce (ack), I see very little need for my regular perusing. No, no one has violated any rules (written ones, at least), and they have a right to do it. But seeing as this joint runs mainly with no administration whatsoever, and has no guiding hand on the rudder of the community, it can very easily slip into another faceless commercial blot on the Earth. Or Internet. You understand.

    I'm looking at having more available time in the coming months, and I wanted to become active again. I hope there are still people around that want to do something other than hawk their wares.

    Discuss.

    With all my usual good regards,
    Jon
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I have been known to buy a few pens. Actually, I might be known to buy a lot of pens but I tend to not buy them one at a time so I don't go to the classified very often. I did try to converse with that Claudio guy but it didn't work out. I've been conversing with someone at the other place that wants to buy high end 51s but he/she/it seems to not realize what high end 51s mean. I'd rather pay a little more for a pen that I can inspect than a randomly offered pen on a board. I am also getting to the point where I will pay significantly more for most pens in unrestored or as found condition. I've simply had to many on-line pens show up overly polished with wrong parts, glue, damage and what not to make it worth the effort. (NOTE I buy vintage not modern pens.)

    Having just finished a pen show and bought and sold and traded pens there my recommendation would be save up your pen money and get to a pen show near you. Not only do you get to play pens with pen people, you get pen people who for the most part are a good lot of people to hang out with.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    My personal viewpoint. I would rather buy from someone who parcipitates by posting on the forum over a period of time. I get the warm and fuzzy feel. Are there reputable people who are new to the site, yes but I hesitate.
    We have met the enemy and he is us.
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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I noticed the same thing. It seems like there are more sales on What's New? than in the actual classifieds. It looks like FPN dropped Claudio so maybe classifieds will shift back towards that site.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    It's always been like that here. Many -- possibly even most -- of the regular and biggest classifieds sellers participate nowhere else on the forum. When you look at the recent ads you see that very thing: most rarely participate here outside of the classifieds, but they aren't all new members.

    Maybe there are more new people, or more new sales threads in total, because FPN has turned itself into an inhospitable place to buy and sell pens for the hobbyist who is just trying to move on a few pens or inks. The stream is now blocked by a constant logjam of multiple ads from financial contributors. Apparently for those dealers and unofficial dealers, it's cheaper than eBay. So that's going to move some of the smaller scale pen sellers from FPN to here, and that includes both hobbyists and borderline dealers.

    What can you do? It's human nature. At least people are looking at the classifieds. As a seller who does participate here, it's a little annoying when you put together a sale and have it bumped off the first page within a day by people who aren't participating members. But I don't do the bump-bump thing that most sellers do, so you could say when that happens to me that it's my fault for not being aggressive about it.

    Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance?

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I'm probably one of the guilty ones. Please allow me to explain.

    I frequented FPN. I posted in the Forums with some frequency. I prefer to buy pens pre-owned, and I much preferred that site to Ebay, so I was an active buyer. I also sold pens when I tired of them in order to generate funds to buy others. You all know the disease.

    Shortly after I found FP Geeks in an attempt to "broaden my horizons", it "disappeared". You all also know that bit of history. When it returned (sort of), I began to browse the Forums, but there didn't seem to be very much discussion. I lurked, but didn't participate. Quite honestly, there just didn't seem to be much discussion in which to participate.

    As was mentioned, FPN Classifieds were soon fairly effectively destroyed through abuse by one member, which was tolerated by management of the site. Despite numerous and frequently repeated complaints by members, the problem was not addressed for many months. Many members began posting that they no longer read the Classifieds. I found it harder to find pens I liked at attractive prices, since the Classifieds lost participation of collectors and became heavily dominated by the one abuser and several other "dealers", both professional and amateur. And I noticed the number of "hits" on my posts of pens for sale dropped significantly.

    I began spending more time on FP Geeks, and started posting my occasional sales here. I quickly found that my sales posts here drew three times as many hits as on FPN, and most of my sales occurred from readers here. I like it here!

    I have to admit, I have been negligent in using the "For Sale" and "WTB,WTT" Forums more than the others, and I haven't contributed much in the way of discussion posts. Guilty as charged! I will try to do better. I appreciate your understanding.
    Last edited by whichwatch; September 3rd, 2016 at 05:04 PM.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Personally I have no problem with the increase in the SALES forum. Anyway I won't buy from someone who hasn't posted content either here or on FPN.
    In any case, I believe that Claudio's one year contract with FPN has expired...
    Last edited by carlos.q; September 3rd, 2016 at 05:17 PM.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Dr. Laura is already spanking me! Look, I'm trying to be positive in my contributions!
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I love the sale threads here. And I hardly buy pens/inks. But the offers are very good, and I enjoy looking at them without being overwhelmed by 50 (or more) of them. Initially, I found the threads here inhospitable to newcomers, especially if they had a contrary opinion or standard of polite discussion. But I have actually been enjoying the ink-guessing threads and a few topic threads the last few months and I have found the tone quite polite and deferential, even. I never guess an ink right, but I am tolerated, which I appreciate. I try my best!

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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Dr. Laura is already spanking me! Look, I'm trying to be positive in my contributions!
    Oh please. Only if you ask nicely do I spank.

    Otherwise I just rely on drollery or occasional sarcasm, both of which no one else ever gets.

    Now, see, I followed your link, was duly impressed by your pen haul and made a positive contribution myself, which may, however, cause you some physical pain, because I mentioned the Pen That Must Not Be Named.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I've absented myself from this forum of late for the same reasons given by TSherbs above - while I don't mind a robust debate, the combativeness and lack of civility from some of the members here is off-putting. They can go play with themselves as far as I am concerned (and they probably do!).

    As for the sales forum... I find it very amusing that there are regular people who pop up repeatedly giving the same tired old reasons why they just have to get rid of this enormous pile of pens. You know, "downsizing", "culling the herd" (if ever there was a cliche that needed taking out and shot it's this one), "looking to buy a grail pen", "found these in the attic/Aunt Mabel left them in her will", that kind of thing.

    In particular I am tickled with the 'downsizers' who are selling with one hand and buying like crazy with the other.

    Perhaps what is especially hilarious though is that some of these people seem to think that they go unnoticed. <shrugs>


    Human nature: for any system that has a weakness that can be exploited, there will be people who will exploit it without any remorse whatsoever.


    I gots ma cynickle head on terday.



    Edited to add: Although I don't know Todd, and have zero chance of making a purchase from him (or anyone like him in fact), his reputation precedes him. Given the choice I would rather put my money in his direction than to someone whose only contribution here is in the classifieds.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; September 3rd, 2016 at 11:20 PM.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I started a sales thread a couple days ago. Hadn't started a sales thread in months before that. I quit listing things here because it is a pain in the ass to end up maybe selling a couple of pens.

    As for other participation I'm not very talkative but I do read some of it.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Yes I have noticed it. I tend to not think of buying anything from a new member. (They might boost their sales by getting to be better known here?)
    Been too busy to post or even look at old the nice artwork, though I feel guilty that sometimes I have time to window shop. (Noticed Jon Szanto missing as well and was just wondering when he would surface.) Seldom mind outspoken comments when I know they are sincere and not just baiting, so always happy to read posts here.
    Looking foreward to hearing more from Jon, and, when I finally get some stuff done of my overdue work, hopefully to post some, too.
    Fortibus es in ero

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance?
    This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

    A simple question like:
    "What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
    "Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
    "Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

    ... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

    I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

    IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    There are one or two regular sellers here I've bought from many times, with joyful results. I am kinda wary of non-participants and maybe some others, due in part to the scammer brouhaha a while back.

    I have sold a pen or two here, and traded inks. I also even sold some pens on the other site, two or three before the Classifieds change, and one after.

    So you can see I'm a high-volume dealer.
    Last edited by Sailor Kenshin; September 4th, 2016 at 09:09 AM.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    So you can see I'm a high-volume dealer.


    More like an 'anti-Claudio'.

    Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    [QUOTE=penwash;181252]
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post

    IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).
    That's it, lure them in, ever so gently....... ( rubs hands, cackles quietly)
    Some days, it's hardly worth chewing through the leather straps....

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    I have to agree with many posts, I used to participate a lot here. I liked it here because it did not have the aggressive, old guard that beat you down for having an opinion like FPN did.
    However, having said that, this year, and especially in the last few moths it has been getting worse! I don't know if the FPN sales situation resulted in a shift of people wanting to post more here too. But it has become a pretty inhospitable place at times... and I'm not a newbie!

    I have actually started holding "highly respected people" on this forum accountable for their actions. They are the ones that are supposed to set the tone; they are the ones that are supposed to rise above the crap and show them how we act on FPGeeks. I have received some not so pleasant messages from people calling me many things. But this is the point, FPGeeks is getting, for use of a better term, catty and I don't like it. I'm sure people will not understand why I have given negative feedback, or even care about my opinion or feelings on the subject. But a society without accountability is doomed to fail.

    I don't post in the "For sale" forum, I have bought a few though. There is more than normal and I did get a grail pen... if it is ever released from customs. But I think people in general are posting less, myself not for fear of attack, but in disappointment of it. I want the FPGeeks I joined a few years ago, where it was a discussion and not a fight; where different opinions were discussed with a "to each their own, but I feel like..." approach and not a "YOU ARE WRONG!!! END OF STORY!!!" feeling to the narrative.

    I have waffled a lot, I have upset people here recently and I'm honestly not sorry. We need to get back to what we were, the sales forum will be overflowed for a while, hopefully that will subside as FPN gets back on track and hopefully our friendly community will too.
    Sam O

    "A fountain pen with a bad nib is like a Ferrari with a flat tyre..." - Brian Gray, Edison pens

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Sammyo, I too have received discourteous and aggressive replies and messages. I recommend the block/ignore function. It's unfortunate to have to do so, but it makes the browsing experience more pleasant.

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    Default Re: So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?

    Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees... but I did clearly stated my intentions in the new members forum. Nobody told me to bugger off from here.

    My main problem on FPN was not people like Claudio. But I felt very disturbing that the forums owner and moderators did not change anything and only repeated that everything was fine and according to the boards rules. After 8 years of active sharing of knowledge and pen pictures I felt tricked.

    But I can promise that I will not flood your sales forum here. Commonly, I have one or two pens for sale at month. In the meantime, I'll try to entertain you with some posts and pics from time to time. Hope this is okay.

    C.
    Last edited by christof; September 5th, 2016 at 06:51 AM.

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