Why so very few postings about inexpensive Chinese pens?

[Medieval]

I bought a couple of JinHaos, some were lamy safari clones that broke within 2 weeks and the others were just so-so
I guess you get what you pay for

Pens bought in those multi-packs are well known to be fakes so they were probably not Jinhaos.


I always found Chinese pens to be great little writers.

[azkid]

My Jinhaos are pretty decent.

I wished expensive always meant quality but too many times I have been disappointed.

I find that, with a little diligence, one can find great values (pens, watches, audio gear, anything, really).

I find it is helpful to know what good value looks like versus relying on cost as an indicator.

[calamus]

Most of the world's consumer goods are manufactured in China, and in general their overall quality and longevity have gone down since that became true. Of course, they've been on a downward trajectory for much longer than that, due to corporations trying to increase their profits by cutting corners to cut costs. Same reason that so much manufacturing and so many jobs got exported to China and elsewhere in the first place. To be able to find ANYTHING made somewhere other than China is not easy, yet there are fountain pens — and excellent ones — made in many countries other than China, including Japan, Germany, Italy, France, the UK and the US, among others. Chinese pens are much cheaper in general, but they're more cheaply made, they are subsidized by a tyrannical government that imprisons people for repeating the "urban legend" of the Tiananmen Square massacre, and which permits what is essentially slave labor in its factories, and their quality control is notoriously bad. So for example, the Baoer 388, a Chinese Parker knockoff that sells for dirt cheap, is a pen which is frequently a decent performer, but if you look at the online reviews, you'll find that a lot of people who've bought them report having problems with the nibs, feed, plating, and/or a cap that can be very difficult to remove. This is typical for Chinese pens; they tend to be very hit or miss. Buying one is always a crap shoot.

[Medieval]

The main reason why some people look down their noses at pens and other items made in China is snob value. Many of the cheap Chinese pens manufactured today are far better writers than those made by the traditional fountain pen makers in the West who who are run by companies who could care less about fountain pens. I'm looking at you Parker, Sheaffer, Pelikan, Waterman....


In truth, there is nothing left of what the above brands once were except their name. There is no expertise or fountain pen culture or innovation within the companies that own the above brands.

There are good reasons why most things are made in China and it's got nothing to do with cheap labour. Companies could outsource everything to Congo or somewhere if labour costs were the main factor because there are many countries that have cheaper labour than China. In modern times, it's much more about China having the best technology and the most skilled workforce.

There are many views about China that are too stereotypical. And slave labour is rampant in the West too. People complain about the notorious warehouses at Apple or Amazon or many call centres, but they're luxurious compared to many places. China doesn't have the monopoly.

[calamus]

Apple products are made in China — under appalling working conditions, apparently. Their quality is good, though. Not everything manufactured in China is cheaply made, and as you've pointed out, China doesn't have a monopoly on making junk. On the other hand, the last time I was in Staples there were fountain pens in there from Sheaffer and from Cross, both were junk (I'd bought one of the Crosses and returned it the next day), and both had been made in China.

I've found that the best modern pens I own were all made in Japan.

[Medieval]

Apple products are made in China — under appalling working conditions, apparently. Their quality is good, though. Not everything manufactured in China is cheaply made, and as you've pointed out, China doesn't have a monopoly on making junk. On the other hand, the last time I was in Staples there were fountain pens in there from Sheaffer and from Cross, both were junk (I'd bought one of the Crosses and returned it the next day), and both had been made in China.

I've found that the best modern pens I own were all made in Japan.

Sorry if I was unclear, but I meant China doesn't have the monopoly on slave labour as there is more than enough in the West.

If the pens were cheaply made that you bought, I would blame Sheaffer and Cross, not Chinese manufacturing. It's Cross's and Sheaffer's decision to make junk.

I would also agree that the best modern pens are made in Japan.

[calamus]

In the US, Canada, UK and EU, sweatshops do exist here and there, but they are illegal and do not function with the government's blessing. That's a significant difference.

And yes, I also blame Sheaffer and Cross for the poor quality of their low-end junk. China is perfectly capable of producing quality goods. But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.

Back in the heyday of fountain pens, competition was fierce, and anyone producing garbage wouldn't stay afloat very long. Market conditions are very different today. And Chinese companies making their own low-end fountain pens have to compete with the cheaply made competing pens produced by their own fellow countrymen. The made-in-China Sheaffer I saw in Staples was retailing for $5.99, and that wasn't a sale price, that was the regular price.

[Jon Szanto]

The entire concept of "made in China", just as the emergence of "Made In Japan" in the late 50s, is a complex one. It can't, and shouldn't be, boiled down to a few pat phrases. If I choose to avoid many of the Chinese made-and-marketed pens, it isn't because of a snobbish attitude, and there are so many aspects to the manufacturing process, including the human labor costs and procedures, that it begs a deeper and more reasoned examination.

There is plenty of chatter about Chinese pens. It is especially warranted now that some very fine pens are being produced. I would enjoy it even more if they could finally get over the constant aping and ripping off of other manufacturers designs. I see signs pointing to just that, which is good.

[Medieval]

In the US, Canada, UK and EU, sweatshops do exist here and there, but they are illegal and do not function with the government's blessing. That's a significant difference.

And yes, I also blame Sheaffer and Cross for the poor quality of their low-end junk. China is perfectly capable of producing quality goods. But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.

Back in the heyday of fountain pens, competition was fierce, and anyone producing garbage wouldn't stay afloat very long. Market conditions are very different today. And Chinese companies making their own low-end fountain pens have to compete with the cheaply made competing pens produced by their own fellow countrymen. The made-in-China Sheaffer I saw in Staples was retailing for $5.99, and that wasn't a sale price, that was the regular price.

As for "slave labour", I wouldn't say that the warehouses at Amazon and Apple and many others in the West are operating illegally, or at least not yet anyway. They are pushing to get away with as much as they can without actually being illegal.

But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.

Done properly? What's that supposed to mean?
Obviously "done properly" means gold plating frequently falling off within months or pens frequently arriving with baby's bottom and misaligned tines. And paying a high price for it.

The argument for making it in China just for cheap costs is not true and, as I stated before, is a long worn out stereotype. I'll let Tim Cook, head of Apple, speak for me:

"There's a confusion about China. The popular conception is that companies come to China because of low labor cost. I'm not sure what part of China they go to but the truth is China stopped being the low labor cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location and the type of skill it is."


And China has an abundance of skilled labor unseen elsewhere, says Cook:

"The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields."

[SIR]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

[k3eax]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

Yes SIR I certainly agree with you. I was very dissatisfied with the color of a Jinhao 992 that I bought for $.99 postpaid. Now if I had only bought locally, even though the 992 would have been many times that price, I could have hopped in my car and traveled 15 miles to return the pen to the local shop. SIR, it certainly did hit the fan and I most assuredly lerned a lesson.

[SIR]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

Yes SIR I certainly agree with you. I was very dissatisfied with the color of a Jinhao 992 that I bought for $.99 postpaid. Now if I had only bought locally, even though the 992 would have been many times that price, I could have hopped in my car and traveled 15 miles to return the pen to the local shop. SIR, it certainly did hit the fan and I most assuredly lerned a lesson.

...

[KBeezie]

I feel like there's only so many of the Chinese pens, and when you get down to the nitty gritty of it, most are copies of pre-existing chinese models with the same characteristic for the most part. And with it having been that saturated for quite a few years with so many people already having access to see them for themselves, there's only so much that could be said or shared before people have already seen it from 50 other reviewers in a year's time.

[aquafox]

IMHO unless we're talking about artisanal pens, everything is down to QC. I saw some documentaries on YouTube of Aurora, Lamy, Pelikan and they all have one thing in common: production lines, where everything is done by machines.

the difference during manufacture process is the nationality of the workers pushing buttons. Quality check is a whole different thing: some companies take the loss, having strict quality check tolerances, others are more lax, and then there's plants where they just don't care as long as it can deliver ink on the paper.

Now, if you're talking "I like to support [country]'s fountain pen production because of whatever reason" that is something you can't argue

[KBeezie]

IMHO unless we're talking about artisanal pens, everything is down to QC. I saw some documentaries on YouTube of Aurora, Lamy, Pelikan and they all have one thing in common: production lines, where everything is done by machines.

the difference during manufacture process is the nationality of the workers pushing buttons. Quality check is a whole different thing: some companies take the loss, having strict quality check tolerances, others are more lax, and then there's plants where they just don't care as long as it can deliver ink on the paper.

Now, if you're talking "I like to support [country]'s fountain pen production because of whatever reason" that is something you can't argue

Also in regards to those three names (at least I think it still applies to Lamy), the nibs are created in-house (for sure with Aurora), and with at least Aurora, the nibs are handmade.

[aquafox]

Pelikan are also made in house. From the fancy S nib down to the humble Pelikano... At least, according to who took the factory tour with the Make a Wish Nib

[KBeezie]

Pelikan are also made in house. From the fancy S nib down to the humble Pelikano... At least, according to who took the factory tour with the Make a Wish Nib

I included Pelikan in the "in-house" comment, but not the hand-made comment (maybe the Sovereign nibs)

[cizra]

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[ilikenails]

'Nuff said in the posting's heading?

*shrugs*.

I have a lot of them, and today's rotation includes two Hero 616s, a Jinhao x750 fude, and another fude (I'm ink-testing). There is almost always at least one inked 616.

For a while, especially during the heyday of isellpens, I specialized in cheap Chinese pens, but branched out into Sailors, MBs and both Pilot and Platinum's lower-end offerings, when I came to realize big, heavy, metal-bodied pens were not for me.

It sounds like you possibly haven't looked at Chinese pens for quite a time. The models people are interested in these days are much more like the Japanese brands and they're typically plastic bodied demos. The 3003 for example is like a full size version of the Prera.

[ilikenails]

I'll let [URL="https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html"]Tim Cook, head of Apple, speak for me

..And I have a bridge for sale. It's made of solid gold! (Off the top of my head I can't think of a company that lies more than Apple - I remember how they hyped their stock price by claiming they were using their own design of CPU for iPads when actually it was an ARM with standard end-users customisation..)