Recommendations for MB Newbie & difference vs Pelikan

[Mister5]

I have two questions:

(1) I've never used a MB but I'm interested in maybe getting one (I'm ok with new or vintage). My favorite pens are a Pelikan M200/215, and Pilot Custom Heritage 92. I love the section and size of the CH 92, and the nib on the Pelikan M200. I also enjoy the Parker 51 and Aurora 88K. Any recommendations for a "starter" MB pen? I don't care much for using converters due to bad ink flow, and there are times when I need to write a lot.

(2) Are there any other major differences between the MBs and Pelikans besides with the Pelikans I can remove and swap the nibs easy and add silicone grease (or really clean out the barrel), which I don't know if I could on the MB. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

[RocketRyan]

I have never used a pelikan so I can't offer a comparison, but I have two montblanc fountain pens ( a 146 and a starwalker) and have found the nibs wonderful. However I would say the starwalker doesn't feel very premium due to the light weight of it.
I bought both pre owned.

[Mister5]

Thanks RocketRyan! How would you say the nibs feel in terms of amount of feedback compared with some of your other pens. For what its worth, I don't like glassy smooth, I like a bit of feedback - not a whole lot so its scratchy though.

[jar]

Just because you can do something is often not a valid reason to do something. Generally taking a pen apart, adding silicon grease and such is not a good idea unless it is absolutely necessary. Yes, I know folk do it and even recommend it but it is still not a good idea.

Considering the pens you mention that you like you might like the slim Montblancs from the late 50s and 60s as well as the earlier 2xx, 3xx pens both cigar shape and dome topped. Some examples are the two and three digit slim Montblanc and the 1xx, 25x, 26x and 34x (the x is the size, 2 being the smallest, 4 being Pelikan M200/M400/early M600 size) and 6 being slightly larger. Another one to consider is the 234½ that I find very near perfect.

Two and three digit slim pens: (some listed now in Sales)



Cigar models: (two on far right are a 320 and a 254, next two of the slim models and the three on the left are modern Montblancs)



1950s 146, 144:




1950s 254:



1950s 264:



and the earlier 234½: (two 234½s, a 144 and a Pelikan M400 as a reference)

[mhosea]

(2) Are there any other major differences between the MBs and Pelikans besides with the Pelikans I can remove and swap the nibs easy and add silicone grease (or really clean out the barrel), which I don't know if I could on the MB. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lubrication of pistons is something I expect to need to do but rarely, once in years of use, but it's something I've needed to do right away after obtaining a used but new-to-me pen.

My experience with Montblanc piston fillers is limited to 1980's and later 146's and 149's. These require a specialized wrench to remove the piston assembly (and the threads are right-handed, BTW). I bought a wrench on eBay because the first Montblanc that I bought was in such need of lubrication, I worried about the amount of torque required to actuate the piston. NOT lubricating such a piston would be foolish, and it's either pay Montblanc to refurbish the pen or learn to do it yourself. Even with the right wrench, however, removing a Montblanc piston that has not been removed for many years can be difficult, and there is some risk of damaging the barrel in one way or another if you aren't careful. One of them took me months of repeated efforts with heat and wrench to loosen for the first time.

[RocketRyan]

The 146 has a broad nib and is really smooth so feedback varies on depending on what paper you use.
The starwalker is a medium and just writes great on anything.
I tend to buy 80g paper from ryman as I find rhodia a bit waxy, but at work it is generally cheaper paper and I have no issues.
Very jealous of that 234 1/2, never seen one before, stunning pen Jar. What do they go for?

[jar]

Very jealous of that 234 1/2, never seen one before, stunning pen Jar. What do they go for?

Honestly I don't know and since they haven't been among my MBs I have been selling I haven't checked prices in a long time. One has a really fine nib and the other an OB one.

[RocketRyan]

Nice, I really want to get into the vintage scene... But I have a second child on the way so the budget has gone. :'(

[Mister5]

Thanks for the advice re: lubricating the piston. I was wondering whether that might have some negative consequences, which you identified. Its not something I wanted to do, but I had to lube the M200 because it started getting feeling stiff - likely due to excessive flushing. I'll definitely keep in mind what you said regarding disassembly.

[Pterodactylus]

(2) Are there any other major differences between the MBs and Pelikans besides with the Pelikans I can remove and swap the nibs easy and add silicone grease (or really clean out the barrel), which I don't know if I could on the MB. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lubrication of pistons is something I expect to need to do but rarely, once in years of use, but it's something I've needed to do right away after obtaining a used but new-to-me pen.

Lubricating a Pelikan by removing the nib to access the barrel is not a great way. Instead, one should use a wrench to remove the piston assembly (note that the threads are left-handed on a Pelikan!). That way you can apply the very small amount of lubrication needed directly to the side of the piston head. Lubricating ahead of the piston head has an effect only because the piston head can't squeegee it all, but it tends to cause an unhelpful glob of grease to form in the area where the ink is stored. The wrench required to remove a Pelikan piston is easy enough to obtain. TWSBI wrenches fit, for example.

My experience with Montblanc piston fillers is limited to 1980's and later 146's and 149's. They can be serviced in a similar way to Pelikans. It just requires a more specialized wrench to remove the piston assembly (and the threads are right-handed, BTW). I bought a wrench on eBay because the first Montblanc that I bought was in such need of lubrication, I worried about the amount of torque required to actuate the piston. NOT lubricating such a piston would be foolish, and it's either pay Montblanc to refurbish the pen or learn to do it yourself. Even with the right wrench, however, removing a Montblanc piston that has not been removed for many years can be difficult, and there is some risk of damaging the barrel in one way or another if you aren't careful. One of them took me months of repeated efforts with heat and wrench to loosen for the first time.

I do not agree with you, disassemble the piston mechanism is much more invasive, error prone and dangerous than lubricating the piston from the nib side.
I would strongly recommend not to do it especially on vintage ones which are often friction fit (unless it is really needed e.g. to replace the seal or cork) and also not on modern ones like the M200s which are even not constructed anymore to be disassembled without damage.
You are talking about the high end ones like the M800 which can be disassembled with the TWSBI wrench, but try to disassemble e.g. a M200 Demonstrator, no chance, you will fail and destroy it.
I know it's a pity, but the smaller ones are not constructed to be disassembled without damage anymore.

On the other side, there is no danger to lubricate the piston from the nib side.
Despite itˋs not needed very often (as said from many above)

And for sure itˋs a disadvantage if you can't disassemble a pen by yourself (normal user) like on most MB's.
But it is like it is (but if you really want for sure you can do it with the right tools, the question is, is it worth doing it)
And also on a MB I would always try to unscrew the nib unit first and do not try to disassemble the piston.

[mhosea]

I would strongly recommend not to do it especially on vintage ones which are often friction fit (unless it is really needed e.g. to replace the seal or cork) and also not on modern ones like the M200s which are even not constructed anymore to be disassembled without damage.
You are talking about the high end ones like the M800 which can be disassembled with the TWSBI wrench, but try to disassemble e.g. a M200 Demonstrator, no chance, you will fail and destroy it.
I know it's a pity, but the smaller ones are not constructed to be disassembled without damage anymore.

You are correct. I will edit my response.

[penwash]

Nice, I really want to get into the vintage scene... But I have a second child on the way so the budget has gone. :'(

I created my website to combat people overcharging for *good* flex pens. The link is on my signature.

[Chrissy]

I try to avoid removing pistons in all of my piston filled pens because I know I'm clumsy and I would rather not risk doing any damage. That said I have once tried the effect of removing a Pelikan nib unit and putting the smallest possible microbe of silicon inside the barrel because the piston was really stiff. It improved it enough for the piston to feel better, so I was happy enough with that.

I once had a Montblanc 146 serviced by Montblanc. I didn't ink it up for a long time after it was returned to me. Eventually I did ink it up and wrote with it for a while until I decided to clean it out. The mere operation of twisting the end cone to clean it out had the unfortunate effect of the end cone dropping off in my hand. As you can imagine, I was mortified. I wasn't sure what to do, and wondered whether I would have to send it off to Montblanc again. However, I could see that the end of the piston rod with it's little C clip, had 'merely' come out of the cone.

I wondered how difficult could this be to fix? Well I can confirm, for me, it was difficult. I first had to buy a Montblanc piston tool on ebay. Then I had to be brave enough to try and remove the piston. That actually wasn't too difficult, and I managed it. I also managed to somehow push the end of the piston rod back into the end cone, and twist it about a bit, until it felt like it was in there properly. I wasn't sure about that but it looked as OK as I thought it could look. So I thought I would reassemble it.

That was the part that proved to be difficult! I always believed I was of reasonably normal intelligence, until I couldn't get that end cone to lie flush onto the gold band. It took me many attempts until I managed to get it right, and although I know I will make myself sound foolish, I somehow managed to make a slight mark on the top of the barrel while I was doing all of this.

Eventually, I took it into my local boutique the next time I went into London. The manager there sent it back to Montblanc for a free service, and it came back with a new barrel. So I was relieved to have my pen 'back to normal.'

I've never tried to repeat the operation, although I've loaned out my tool to a US friend, who managed to use it successfully on a Montblanc 146, with a stuck piston, that she bought on eBay.

IMHO the Montblanc piston removal tool is worth having for emergencies, but removing a Montblanc piston shouldn't be seen as a routine operation.

I don't even have a nib removal tool. That is something I've never attempted to do. Thank goodness.

So please let my experience serve as a warning to not remove pistons unnecessarily.

[Mister5]

Another question: How would you characterize the vintage Montblanc nibs in terms of line width? I like my vintage pens in that they all seem to write with a nice thin line - like Japanese F to XF. The two Pelikans I have are nominally XF and F but both write with the same line width as far as I'm concerned - Western medium. (But I like the feel of how they write)

[jar]

Another question: How would you characterize the vintage Montblanc nibs in terms of line width? I like my vintage pens in that they all seem to write with a nice thin line - like Japanese F to XF. The two Pelikans I have are nominally XF and F but both write with the same line width as far as I'm concerned - Western medium. (But I like the feel of how they write)

European standard and not Asian standard.

[RocketRyan]

Loved your website penwash! Now to hunt down the back of the sofa for some money.

[wangminze]

You mentioned that you love the section size of your CH 92, so I want to point out that the 146's is much larger than that. The 92 is perfect size for my hand (not my favorite size but the best fit one), and I cannot use a modern 146; it's too big and heavy. And regarding the greasing, my 92's piston has slipped before, and after some time, it just doesn't turn as nice as when it gets greased, but I've really only greased it 3-4 times for the 3 years I've used it.


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[Mister5]

You mentioned that you love the section size of your CH 92, so I want to point out that the 146's is much larger than that. The 92 is perfect size for my hand (not my favorite size but the best fit one), and I cannot use a modern 146; it's too big and heavy. And regarding the greasing, my 92's piston has slipped before, and after some time, it just doesn't turn as nice as when it gets greased, but I've really only greased it 3-4 times for the 3 years I've used it.

For me the CH 92's section length is optimal. I'm ok with shorter and thinner pens - I'm not the biggest guy out there and don't have big mitts. I'd probably be OK with a thicker girth but its probably unnecessary for me. Once it a while I like a big one (I have a FC 02 which I think qualifies as a big one). But then I gravitate back to smaller pens. I have a Jinhao 159 but that thing is like a baseball bat and ridiculously heavy IMHO.

I haven't had to lube up the CH 92 oddly enough even though I've used it far more than the M200. Naturally I've cursed myself and when I'm done with this fill it will seize up like a lawnmower that's been in the shed unused for three years.

Wingminze - what's your favorite MB since the 146 seems to be a little big for you. It sounds like I'd be in the same boat.

[wangminze]

What's your favorite MB since the 146 seems to be a little big for you.

I recently bought a Nakaya Decapod Twist in heki tamenuri from whichwatch. I really like it because 1) It's beautiful 2) it's long, which I like, but it's light thanks to the ebonite 3) I like bigger pens (146 with metal threads just too heavy, and thick).

I used to own a Pelikan M800, and I really enjoyed the looks because, again, of its size, but it was a bit too girthy for extended use. Even though some pens probably seem large in my hands, I prefer those because then I don't feel like I'm gripping too hard which I tend to do for smaller sections.
I wish my hands were bigger.

[Mister5]

What's your favorite MB since the 146 seems to be a little big for you.

I recently bought a Nakaya Decapod Twist in heki tamenuri from whichwatch. I really like it because 1) It's beautiful 2) it's long, which I like, but it's light thanks to the ebonite 3) I like bigger pens (146 with metal threads just too heavy, and thick).

I used to own a Pelikan M800, and I really enjoyed the looks because, again, of its size, but it was a bit too girthy for extended use. Even though some pens probably seem large in my hands, I prefer those because then I don't feel like I'm gripping too hard which I tend to do for smaller sections.
I wish my hands were bigger.

Thanks for your opinion on the pens. I've had lust for the Decapod for a couple years but I love to post my pens so I'm not sure that would be the right choice for me. I'll be interested in what your opinion is on it after you've had it for a while. How about Montblancs, any you gravitate to?