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Thread: Classified etiquette

  1. #81
    Junior Member Bzzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...
    The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

    Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.
    Okay now I am slightly annoyed. Making them aware, yes, I did that. So?

    And please keep your minding your own business comments to yourself. I at least contacted the seller to buy the pen, you lot weren't even in the picture. At most this is kangaroo type court justice.
    If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Bzzer View Post

    If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.
    Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
    Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

    Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Empty_of_Clouds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Unfortunately, as soon as something is stated publicly then it becomes automatically a public concern.

    I too have been on the receiving end. So, even though a prominent contributor on this thread hypocritically started a new thread calling into question the provenance of a pen I was selling, it actually had no effect on the sale. And while I found it irritating, because I felt forced to change my listing to reflect this attack, there is little one can do about it on an unmoderated forum where each member feels their own version of ethics is correct.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; February 6th, 2019 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.
    Absent a concerned and involved administrator, it has been left up to the community to address issues such as this in an open discussion. While we may not be able to take action in any immediate way, we can attempt to contact the owner and make them aware of any problematic issues that have occured. In a very significant way, it is our business, and it does concern us, especially when someone is being a dickish lout for no reason at all.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Suppose that it was malevolent, so?....
    Well, at least that's settled. And here I naively thought it was just a lack of courtesy.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...
    The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

    Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.
    Okay now I am slightly annoyed. Making them aware, yes, I did that. So?
    I think AzJon's point is saying you paid significantly less for the same pen is the same thing as publicly objecting to the price which is generally considered rude and inconsiderate.

    Just because you found a good deal doesn't mean the price you paid is market value. Contextual factors (such as location, pen condition, seller motivation, or seller knowledge about pens) have a huge influence on prices (both up or down).
    A person on FPN recently found a rare pen in new condition from a small stationary shop for ~$500. The stationary shop didn't know these pens often sell for $800-1200 in used condition, they were just trying to clear out old inventory. If this person were to share their purchase price on a classified for the same pen it could lead potential buyers to believe that $500 is a fair price even though that was a rare find and incredible deal. This will make selling the pen at market value almost impossible.

    By stating your price on the classified listing you're essentially keeping the seller from selling the pen and also creating a hassle for the seller who will now likely have to deal people making offers below what the seller is willing to consider.
    Even if you think the price is inflated it's considered good etiquette to not bring up those opinions publicly. The pen in question had been listed for almost a year without selling, which suggests the price was above market but that's not your place to say or decide (the market was already doing this). I've seen the same pen sell for between $425-700 in the last year.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Suppose that it was malevolent, so?....
    Well, at least that's settled. And here I naively thought it was just a lack of courtesy.
    The word "suppose" has a meaning. It wasn't intended to be malevolent.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.
    Absent a concerned and involved administrator, it has been left up to the community to address issues such as this in an open discussion. While we may not be able to take action in any immediate way, we can attempt to contact the owner and make them aware of any problematic issues that have occured. In a very significant way, it is our business, and it does concern us, especially when someone is being a dickish lout for no reason at all.
    Then discuss all you want. But don't expect members to follow the brand of justice that you set.
    And keep your threats to yourself, dickwad.

  12. #89
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Then discuss all you want. But don't expect members to follow the brand of justice that you set.
    And keep your threats to yourself, dickwad.
    Bite me.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Man, this thread got spicy since I last logged on.

    Dhruv, mate, you realized you can't keep telling people to mind their own business when you keep insisting on inserting your business and opinions into the matter on an open public forum, yeah?

    All I was saying, as mulrich correctly asserted, is that a public comment, for all to see, questioning the price (yes, using an ellipses (...) after naming a price that is half of what is being asked is questioning or at very least judging) that someone set on an out of make model of pen is being the opposite of minding your own business.

    No need to get defensive for other people calling you out on your rude sales board etiquette. Next time, just roll your eyes and ignore the post or pm the person directly (still rude, but hey).

  15. #91
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    nanny nanny boo boo!

    Dickwad draws a lotta water around here, mister.

    And I got a red pen for fifty bucks, so SUCK IT.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Now that this thread has descended to new levels, please allow me, as the person who posted the pen in question for sale, to make a few comments.

    First, recognize that the sales post that started all this was made more than a year ago. The pen actually did sell fairly quickly, at just below my asking price. So I guess my pricing at the time the post was originally made wasn't as bad as some believe. I know the buyer, see him from time to time, and he remains quite happy with it. The fact that someone found a lower price more than a year later is irrelevant. Maybe in another year the price will be higher, maybe lower yet. Market prices do change, as we all know.

    I am indeed guilty, but in this case not of incorrect pricing since the pen did in fact sell. I am guilty of failing to mark the pen as "sold" - one of the issues Fred properly reminds us of from time to time.

    When I saw Dhruv's post saying he had found one at a much lower price, it annoyed me even though the pen had been sold. I always feel these sorts of posts are awfully inconsiderate to the sellers. Unfortunately, inconsiderate jerks do exist on almost all Forums, as Dhruv has proven through his posts.

    Most of us here are collectors, not professional dealers. Sometimes we do get prices wrong. It's funny how nobody complains when the price is too low. But let someone price too high and the accusations of gouging start pretty quickly. Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe the person paid too much for the pen and didn't know the current market. Maybe the person had mixed feelings about selling the pen at all and figured he'd sell only if the price were high enough, so that's how he priced it. Maybe geography plays a big role (such as Pelikan prices in US vs Europe or Sailor prices in Japan vs US).

    There are a number of regular sellers on Ebay who set prices so high most collectors wonder how they ever sell a pen. So? As others have said, the market usually speaks quite clearly.

    I've bought and sold many dozens, probably hundreds of pens on FPG as well as other venues. Most sell very quickly, indicating my prices must generally be pretty fair. I would bet all my money that I sometimes get them wrong. If so, the market will let me know and I can adjust. But few don't sell in a reasonable time, and nobody bats 1.000, so I guess I'm doing OK.

    I've gone on long enough. If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. I'm going to go make some more popcorn and watch (I mean read) the rest of the show.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzzer View Post

    If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.
    Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
    Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

    Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.
    It's a public forum. Once you post publicly, you made it everybody's business. Want it to be private? Use the private message system. This isn't a difficult concept.

    A wise old sergeant once said, "show your ass if you want, just don't complain when it gets spanked." Folks appear to be lined up, paddles in hand...

    Honestly, I'm astounded that you searched for a year old thread and bumped it with your "I bought one cheaper" comment.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Man, this thread got spicy since I last logged on.

    Dhruv, mate, you realized you can't keep telling people to mind their own business when you keep insisting on inserting your business and opinions into the matter on an open public forum, yeah?

    All I was saying, as mulrich correctly asserted, is that a public comment, for all to see, questioning the price (yes, using an ellipses (...) after naming a price that is half of what is being asked is questioning or at very least judging) that someone set on an out of make model of pen is being the opposite of minding your own business.

    No need to get defensive for other people calling you out on your rude sales board etiquette. Next time, just roll your eyes and ignore the post or pm the person directly (still rude, but hey).
    You can blame someone up there for it. Rude replies (according to you) aren't same as this.

    I disagree with the public comment. I have been a member for 4 years now, and with only 110 or so posts including 10 in this thread. I log in regularly, check all threads etc. Yet I stay away from what doesn't concern me. It's really not necessary that you need to respond to everything posted in a forum.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhruv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzzer View Post

    If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.
    Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
    Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

    Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.
    It's a public forum. Once you post publicly, you made it everybody's business. Want it to be private? Use the private message system. This isn't a difficult concept.

    A wise old sergeant once said, "show your ass if you want, just don't complain when it gets spanked." Folks appear to be lined up, paddles in hand...

    Honestly, I'm astounded that you searched for a year old thread and bumped it with your "I bought one cheaper" comment.
    Part of the reason why I was looking for one. I did want a finer writing pen, but that last comment that "you will never find it for cheaper" prompted me to go and seriously look for one. I had a point to prove. It took some time, but I did it.

    As for paddles, let them come.

    So yeah, don't make pointless comments to potential buyers either. It won't work out well for you. Hopefully you include this too in your so called classified etiquettes actually no, this happened on pm so not related to classified etiquettes.
    Last edited by Dhruv; February 6th, 2019 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    I'm generally happy not selling pens online, I'm often reminded of this.

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    Default Re: Classified etiquette

    Here is an auction that closed today. I'm just sayin'


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