Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Landlords...

  1. #1
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Lightbulb Landlords...

    It came to my attention today that Singapore has a Certificate of Entitlement for those wishing to own and use a motor vehicle and a limited quota of Certificates may be valid at any one time.

    I am generally of the opinion that private ownership of property is perfectly acceptable but where ownership of property - especially surplus property - causes, adds to, or perpetuates the hardship of others it is contrary to the reasonable best interests of society, and therefore - despite my general dislike for law as an answer to all our social ills - should be legislated against.

    I absolutely despise landlords, as in those who make business from charging others for accommodation or shelter; in my opinion they are parasites who do not contribute to society, indeed, they add to and compound the hardship of those who are not themselves real property owners and, in so doing, not only profit from but also further exacerbate other social ills.

    By no means am I a communist, however, I do believe those who are privileged enough to be so enlightened and benefit from a first world standard of living should take responsibility for furthering the continued rebalancing of our social inequalities. Following the inspirational, if not perfect, example of the Singapore car quota, I am now wondering how practicable it would be to introduce such a system to manage surplus real estate.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    534
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 456 Times in 196 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Landlords...

    It's an interesting idea, and something I've never given any though to. I think for your argument to be convincing, you would have to elaborate on your argument that property is surplus, and how a land lord compounds the hardship of those who are not real property owners. It's not dissimilar to prohibitions on usury, but doesn't explain how one is to be motivated to loan "surplus" money and assume risk without interest (or islamic-type "workarounds" to charging interest).

    So, the opposing view could be that a landlord provides shelter at an affordable cost for those without the means to own property, and is therefore doing a societal good.

    Personally, I admire the idea of some sort of "rebalancing of social inequalities"; but I believe the problem with what is essentially socialism or communism is that they remove incentive and inadvertently promote "laziness" (for lack of a better term at the moment). We intend to provide a safety net, but inadvertently create a safety "nest". Capitalism has its problems as well, but harnesses the power of human greed (again, for lack of a better term - yet bluntly appropriate). It promotes incentive, innovation and creativity, and is in my opinion the lesser of the two evils.

    Ayn Rand is perhaps worth some of your time, for a viewpoint counter to what you've expressed; if you haven't read her yet.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to dneal For This Useful Post:

    SIR (November 30th, 2016)

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    540
    Thanks
    350
    Thanked 377 Times in 187 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Housing is subject to supply and demand and there's considerable cost in providing housing where there's a deficit. Many lack the financial resources to purchase their own housing while many do not want to purchase ( for a variety of reasons) yet still require accommodation. The rental market and rental cost is largely determined by supply and demand, low supply and high demand see rents rise which impacts low earners. The increase in supply to meet demand is met by the construction of new housing based on expected investment returns ( housing that loses money won't be built). It's "landlords" that actually provide the balance between supply and demand and provide a buffer to increasing rent pressure. Rather than a negative those investing in new rental accommodation are a positive by both providing new housing and taking the inherent risks any investment carries. Nor do these investors affect new housing prices because the cost of construction is the same for everyone. We rent several houses on our farm and I can assure you it's more an exercise in asset maintenance than being a major income stream.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HughC For This Useful Post:

    CaptainRon (December 2nd, 2016), SIR (December 2nd, 2016)

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    124
    Thanks
    101
    Thanked 48 Times in 27 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Quote Originally Posted by HughC View Post
    ... I can assure you it's more an exercise in asset maintenance than being a major income stream.
    This was true for me in the U.S. as well. It came to a point where the income produced wasn't worth the effort so I got out of "landlord" business.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to RNHC For This Useful Post:

    SIR (November 6th, 2017)

  8. #5
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Landlords...

    The next evolution of the idea has me thinking that governments should make the private letting of residential property illegal, and should compulsorily purchase all proffered surplus real estate at market value, then resell these via state owned and managed mortgages of 1-2%.

  9. #6
    Member JFB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    54
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 24 Times in 12 Posts
    Rep Power
    2

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Another thing not mentioned is that rental property can and does provide an opportunity for some people who other wise might not be able to afford to purchase a home to buy one. The rents from two apartments in a three family house can help pay a mortgage that would otherwise be beyond reach of some people.

    Not all landlords are evil. My house just breaks even. We are providing housing at the low end of market rate. I think a system of rent control (like we used to have in Boston) tied to property tax rates would go along way toward finding an equitable balance.

    Pax,
    John

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to JFB For This Useful Post:

    SIR (November 5th, 2017)

  11. #7
    Senior Member oldstoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Surrey, England
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 512 Times in 190 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    The next evolution of the idea has me thinking that governments should make the private letting of residential property illegal, and should compulsorily purchase all proffered surplus real estate at market value, then resell these via state owned and managed mortgages of 1-2%.
    Practical problems abound. How would a government fund such an enormous cost, given the value of property? Who would determine the appropriate levels of rent to fund such a purchase?

    In the U.K., much of the problem starts with Thatcher's sale of council housing to tenants, which transferred a public good into private hands. Maybe renationalisation should start there - with current owners being given the 1979 price....
    Some days, it's hardly worth chewing through the leather straps....

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to oldstoat For This Useful Post:

    SIR (November 6th, 2017)

  13. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    The next evolution of the idea has me thinking that governments should make the private letting of residential property illegal, and should compulsorily purchase all proffered surplus real estate at market value, then resell these via state owned and managed mortgages of 1-2%.
    Ah yes, the answer to everything is always more government. That "evolution" has never failed before in history of mankind.

    I am sorry if I am cynical, but I was born in communism.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to adhoc For This Useful Post:

    SIR (November 6th, 2017)

  15. #9
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Landlords...

    Don't get me wrong, i'm a strong believer in minimal government, less is more in all things including law, however, where a government does exist it should take responsibility for those things with which individuals cannot be trusted.

  16. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    I don’t want to bash you, but take this as mere intellectual stimulation; who decides then what individuals can not be trusted with? Surely not the individuals themselves...so government?

    I know I’m from a country that’s truly a success story post communism, but even we’re barely tipping into the first world. Other countries are barely second world, tipping into third world post communism. I hate it truly with a passion.

  17. #11
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Landlords...

    There is a difference between the community as a group of individuals, with shared opinion or capacity for tolerance and compromise, and that of appointed authority who is responsible for administering essential social provisions.

  18. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    I'm not sure how this answers my question to who decides what "the government should take responsibility for" and what "the individuals cannot be trusted with".

    The last time the government decided we can not be trusted with private property we had execution squads and my family was thrown out of their own house in the middle of the night with military. Ah, the catch is we had "too much" private property. And good ol' government also decided what constitutes "too much". Just as they decided what issues we can not be trusted with. And if we deserve to live. Trivial matters like that :-)

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to adhoc For This Useful Post:

    JFB (November 8th, 2017)

  20. #13
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Wink Re: Landlords...

    No, i do not object to privately owned property; i object to people making a living from being parasites who only own land and only earn a living from charging rent to others - basically, people who don't contribute meaningful labour yet think that they are better than others for providing them with something which is a basic essential for human life on this planet i.e. shelter.

  21. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    And you would solve this by taking what’s theirs from them and let government handle it instead? Or what other solution is there to these parasites?

  22. #15
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Landlords...

    No, no... you can keep your property if you want to, you just can't let it to others; the local government will buy your property at market value from the national government budget if you want to sell it to them, of course, you can sell to another private individual but they can't let it out either - only the local authority is allowed to.

    I would also assimililate all the monarch and royal family's estates into the National Trust for the use and enjoyment of the public.

  23. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    And the government would lend it for free? If not, what would be the "fair price" then? What's the incentive to own and maintain a property if the price is much lower to rent now? And if there is none, how do you keep the real estate economy from crashing? Such a move would anyway be absolute horror for real estate economy and when your real estate economy goes to shit, your entire economy goes to shit (great example last recession).

    Just to make sure; I am an owner of two real estates, but I do not lend them, I use them both, so I'm not a "landlord". However, I see landlords as a company; you have a bunch of money tied into real estates and you lend them out at a price. This price has to cover your ROI plus maintenance, while the rentee has no worries about real estate market fluctuations, maintenance or anything else for that matter, he pays a rent that is generally lower than a mortgage would be. This is de facto a service and is no different to any other normal company. Actually, the only difference is ROI of landlording is generally terrible compared to other companies, so I'm guessing the only people that are landlords are people who are not good enough with their money to properly generate revenue with it.

    Can you imagine having a million euros tied up into something that only generates a couple of grand a month? You have got to be really poor at economy to do that. Also, if this type of company should be forbidden, which other types of companies should be forbidden as well? I have to tell you, if "meaningful labour" is the criteria, that list is going to be loooooong.

  24. #17
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Cool Re: Landlords...

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    What's the incentive to own and maintain a property if the price is much lower to rent now?
    You tell me, why do people buy pens when they can get them for free? Could be freedom and independence, a sense of self determination?

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    How do you keep the real estate economy from crashing? Such a move would anyway be absolute horror for real estate economy and when your real estate economy goes to shit, your entire economy goes to shit (great example last recession). Also, if this type of company should be forbidden, which other types of companies should be forbidden as well? I have to tell you, if "meaningful labour" is the criteria, that list is going to be long.
    Indeed, we need to be more critical of the industries we accept as necessary in our societies.

    I have no interest in supporting industries fo the sake of it; in the UK we have far too many pubs, restaurants, and hotels - relics from a time before canned beer, tv, internet, and the horseless carriage. Many folks are upset about the number of pubs closing... I'm not gonna cry, they're trying to sell a product for twice or ten times what it'd cost to have for the same or even better quality in the privacy of one's own home.

    Estate agents will soon be a relic too - just look at sellmyhome.co.uk, purplebricks.co.uk etc; why would you pay someone else to do something you can do yourself from the comfort of your home or even from your phone?

  25. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    In 2016, total real estate worth of UK was 6 trillion GBP. You're saying your government is supposed to buy (almost) all of it, maintain it, take care of building additional homes (which is by the way roughly 300 thousand every year, which approximately fits with the number of new people UK takes every year), etc.

    Your idea of motivation why people would own homes is very sweet, but in reality almost nobody except the ultra rich would want to own property in such a scenario. So in turn, you're expecting the government to pay - with taxpayers money - a 6 trillion GBP market which WILL devalue over night. I want my government to spend my money wisely and make more money out of it.

    Not to mention you're relying on renting from hundreds of thousands of owners now (lots of competition), you would be renting from a single owner then. Complete and total monopoly enforced by law, police and army. One party to decide what the price of rental is. What an absolute nightmare.

    (I agree with the rest of your points and a discussion between two people who agree on something is not really a discussion, so I'm avoiding those arguments)

  26. #19
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    GB
    Posts
    1,444
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 617 Times in 392 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Cool Re: Landlords...

    You're making some gross assumptions - when did i mention a single party government and can you give some research findings to support your assertion that only the ultra rich would want to own their own homes?

    Fact of the matter is, many folks tolerate the situation as it is because they simply have more important things to worry about just feeding their families and keeping up with the rat race.
    How is it we, in the first world, are still working 5 days per week yet there are people from the world's population not included in the so-called global economy and starving? Because those that have so much more than they need are unwilling to sacrifice their own perceived advantage and are so corrupt they will contrive to cause wars and genocide in order to protect it.

    "Everybody knows the deal is rotten
    Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
    For your ribbons and bows
    And everybody knows"


    We will never forget...

  27. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    303
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 135 Times in 78 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Landlords...

    I never mentioned one party government either. I was talking about one party to own nearly all real estate market; which would be the government in your case.

    You're right, it's not only the ultra rich that would own their own homes; it would be only government members and their extended VIP circles. As shown many times throughout history. So there's dozens of cases where this has been shown in government owned real estate market, do you have a single case of it ever working out differently? The burden of proof now lies on you.

    I know leftists like to shut people up with race baiting and slavery, but I'd like to remind you I come from a country that has never in its' 1500 years of written existence owned slaves, profited from slavery, had imperialistic or colonialistic tendencies. Never ever. So I'm sorry, but I feel zero guilt whatsoever about the subject. Now, let's stick to the the subject and tell me why it would be a good idea for the government to buy into real estate economy with taxpayers money, all the while crashing the entire economy and hence losing most of the invested money over night?

    I would also like to give you a friendly reminder that these communistic ideas and the ability to think of them with rose tinted glasses are a complete and total privilege.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •