International shipping - what gives with the refusal to ship across borders?

[jar]

As an aside on "CONUS," the internet and its netcitizens post different meanings, some which would include Alaska and some that don't (CONtinental versus CONtiguous). Wikipedia sums it up as well as any site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiguous_United_States

Fred

If there is a question it's simple to just ask the seller if shipments to Hawaii or Alaska or US Territories are considered International. Too often these days it seems people take great pleasure in making their lives far more difficult and painful then necessary by raising a high buck stink when there is a penny dreadful solution.

[Sammyo]

No, it does not. If the individual uses a credit card through PayPal the all the individual needs to do is dispute the charge with the credit card company and unless the seller can prove delivery the credit card company will support their client.

Thanks for the clarification... We live in depressing world, set up to hurt each other and legal system set up to support it... Thank goodness there are still some good people left our there!

[jar]

No, it does not. If the individual uses a credit card through PayPal the all the individual needs to do is dispute the charge with the credit card company and unless the seller can prove delivery the credit card company will support their client.

Thanks for the clarification... We live in depressing world, set up to hurt each other and legal system set up to support it... Thank goodness there are still some good people left our there!

But wait, there's more.

If it is a debit card then it's most likely they cannot dispute the issue except through the issuing bank the debit is drawn on. In that case all bets are off and the outcome is really up to individual jurisdictions.

[sloegin]

On the one hand, I can understand why many sellers make this point. However, there are several methods of shipping with tracking from the US to international destinations, and their prices can vary dramatically. So does everything need to be sent by the very expensive Express Service?

I may be wrong, but to ship from the US to the UK brings up many tracked options. Pens or bottles of ink, generally don't come in large boxes, or weigh heavy weights, so the USPS 'Small packet' rate would usually apply.

I have bought several pens from a US seller on FPN. He sends them by USPS 1st class International mail, and that's very cheap and offers tracking to the UK. He's happy to use that method, and it obviously works for him, but I know it's not everyone's choice.

When Laura was doing Mystery Ink, she shipped everything by USPS 1st Class International, and she always knew when it had arrived, so I am aware that the service is very quick and very reliable, and is tracked.

In fact, I have never had anything fail to arrive from anywhere in the world. Maybe I've been lucky?

On the other hand, when I sell, I tend to consider how much of a risk I might need to take. If something is only worth $20, I would send it by the least expensive service. If it was worth $200, then I would send it insured. Horses for courses. I personally don't worry so much about charging a buyer lot's of money for shipping and insuring an item that's only worth $20.

I would also never ask for someone to pay me by PayPal 'friends and family'. That's not so much 'putting one's money where one's mouth is.' It's not allowed by PayPal, and if I did something that they didn't allow, I might lose my account.

On the other hand, when I've had a friend with whom I've exchanged ink bottles or samples, or paid for something to be shipped from a friend, I'm more than happy to send some funds as a 'friends and family' payment. I think there's a subtle difference.

Ebay sellers seem to have different rules. Lots of them use the hated ebay 'Global Shipping Program'. I would never buy from any seller who uses that. I just press the back button, rather than trying to enter into a discussion. They have chosen that for a reason, and it's not worth my while asking for something different.

Please show me a tracking number that proves delivery. I'm not aware of another option! I'd use it. The small flat rate box ($27ish to most international destinations, Canada is cheaper) does not offer tracking or insurance.

I understand and am sympathetic to the cost of express mail ($65ish) for shipping a $20 pen. It is absurd. There is little I can do about it though. My faith in trusting the whims of the postal services, customs, etc. is small; which is also why I generally pack pens in PVC pipe (you can run over it with a truck and the pen will be fine). So I'm just unwilling to risk money because of somebody's greater faith in the shipping gods.

I'm quite upfront about the gift option negating the buyer's protection. I'm not asking for it to avoid fees. It is going to be more difficult for the buyer to get a refund. I had not considered that it was not available, Sammyo. The only other alternative I can that I can think of is waiting for the time limit to expire, which is also quite absurd.

Everyone (in the US) was automatically opted in to the Ebay global shipping program. You had to manually go in and opt out. So they might not be aware of it!

[jar]

Please show me a tracking number that proves delivery. I'm not aware of another option! I'd use it. The small flat rate box ($27ish to most international destinations, Canada is cheaper) does not offer tracking or insurance.

I understand and am sympathetic to the cost of express mail ($65ish) for shipping a $20 pen. It is absurd. There is little I can do about it though. My faith in trusting the whims of the postal services, customs, etc. is small; which is also why I generally pack pens in PVC pipe (you can run over it with a truck and the pen will be fine). So I'm just unwilling to risk money because of somebody's greater faith in the shipping gods.

I'm quite upfront about the gift option negating the buyer's protection. I'm not asking for it to avoid fees. It is going to be more difficult for the buyer to get a refund. I had not considered that it was not available, Sammyo. The only other alternative I can that I can think of is waiting for the time limit to expire, which is also quite absurd.

Everyone (in the US) was automatically opted in to the Ebay global shipping program. You had to manually go in and opt out. So they might not be aware of it!

Sure the flat rate USPS Priority mail includes tracking and tracking internationally and insurance is always based on the value the shipper assigns.

No one has to use eBay Global shipping, you simply need to check the box that says you are not using it.

PayPal specifically prohibits using the Gift option for commercial transactions. If you ask someone to use it for a purchase you are breaking Paypal's rules.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Please show me a tracking number that proves delivery. I'm not aware of another option! I'd use it. The small flat rate box ($27ish to most international destinations, Canada is cheaper) does not offer tracking or insurance.

I understand and am sympathetic to the cost of express mail ($65ish) for shipping a $20 pen. It is absurd. There is little I can do about it though. My faith in trusting the whims of the postal services, customs, etc. is small; which is also why I generally pack pens in PVC pipe (you can run over it with a truck and the pen will be fine). So I'm just unwilling to risk money because of somebody's greater faith in the shipping gods.

https://about.usps.com/news/national...e-tracking.htm

The United States Postal Service is reminding customers that — for no additional charge — online tracking has been added to certain international shipping services for lightweight packages to select countries.

The international shipping services for which free online tracking is available include:

First-Class Package International Service
Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelopes
Priority Mail International Small Flat Rate Boxes

The free online tracking feature is available for these items sent to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Great Britain, Germany, France, Netherlands, Croatia, Denmark, Spain, Switzerland, Israel and Brazil.

Online tracking information, when available includes the date and time the package:

left the U.S.
was received in the foreign country
was delivered, or delivery-attempted at the final destination address

How to check delivery status:
Senders can check delivery status by going to usps.com and clicking on Track & Confirm or https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...n!input.action and use the package barcode tracking number.

Customers wishing to access free online tracking with First-Class Package International Service, Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelopes, and Priority Mail International Small Flat Rate Boxes must use an online, or electronically generated shipping label through one of the following methods:

USPS-approved PC Postage Providers (Endicia.com, Stamps.com)
usps.com (Click-N-Ship, Click-N-Ship for Business, Webtools apps)
USPS Global Shipping Software (GSS) or other USPS-approved software providers

International Shipping Service Features:
First-Class Package International Service is USPS’ most affordable international service for small packages. Customers may send items weighing up to 4 pounds with a maximum value not exceeding $400. Delivery time varies by destination.

[sloegin]

You are quoting the postal website, great. Please show me a tracking number.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I've got nothing inbound from the US at the moment.

However, when I do buy something the seller gives me the USPS tracking number and then, wonder of the interwebs and all that, I can go to the USPS tracking site and watch my package doing a tour of the lower 48 States before hopping on a plane and flying to New Zealand. I then see it come up on our local postal tracking site where I can see that it is heading for my city, now it's with the local courier, and oh, look at that, there's the courier now with the package in hand and asking for a signature.


So, you're going to have to be a lot more specific in your question. A tracking number is (IIRC) a 10 digit/letter code, like this LZ12345678US.


tl;dr - USPS First Class International provides an online tracking number. You just plug it into the system and away you go. Not sure why this is presenting as a problem.

[KrazyIvan]

I used to be able to get around tracking costs by using the Customs form number as a tracking number. You could actually use that on the USPS tracking website and it would show tracking info. Not anymore. Just sent a package to Germany and the customs number just errored out as not a valid tracking number.

[sloegin]

I've got nothing inbound from the US at the moment.

However, when I do buy something the seller gives me the USPS tracking number and then, wonder of the interwebs and all that, I can go to the USPS tracking site and watch my package doing a tour of the lower 48 States before hopping on a plane and flying to New Zealand. I then see it come up on our local postal tracking site where I can see that it is heading for my city, now it's with the local courier, and oh, look at that, there's the courier now with the package in hand and asking for a signature.


So, you're going to have to be a lot more specific in your question. A tracking number is (IIRC) a 10 digit/letter code, like this LZ12345678US.


tl;dr - USPS First Class International provides an online tracking number. You just plug it into the system and away you go. Not sure why this is presenting as a problem.

That was rather condescending?

LC12345678US...is a customs form number. I want proof of delivery to an international destination without sending something express mail. Show me a tracking number that offers proof of delivery.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

As I said, I don't have anything inbound right now. My previous US purchases this year have expired numbers that cannot be retrieved.

This is what USPS does, and has consistently done for all my US purchases over the last two years. Every single package had a number that allowed me to track from the point of origin all the way to when it landed on my desk.

Whatever you want to call that number, it still allows complete tracking of the package, including the delivery status or failure to deliver.


Sorry, I just don't know what other kind of proof you want.


Edit:

That was rather condescending?

Perhaps, but please try to understand why this is frustrating me. I have a number that allows me and the seller to track the package. It seemed pretty clear to me. Sorry if you're talking about something completely different that does the exact same thing.

[top pen]

I can understand it from both points of view. It feels like there is a far greater risk of sending it through a network you don't know. I trust the Royal Mail I don't I've had any items simply not turn up I've purchased online, you just don't if the service in the other country similar to a particular courier that begins with a "H" in the UK. However I can't really understand there being a problem if the buyer is willing to pay for Tracked shipping.

[jar]

I've got nothing inbound from the US at the moment.

However, when I do buy something the seller gives me the USPS tracking number and then, wonder of the interwebs and all that, I can go to the USPS tracking site and watch my package doing a tour of the lower 48 States before hopping on a plane and flying to New Zealand. I then see it come up on our local postal tracking site where I can see that it is heading for my city, now it's with the local courier, and oh, look at that, there's the courier now with the package in hand and asking for a signature.


So, you're going to have to be a lot more specific in your question. A tracking number is (IIRC) a 10 digit/letter code, like this LZ12345678US.


tl;dr - USPS First Class International provides an online tracking number. You just plug it into the system and away you go. Not sure why this is presenting as a problem.

That was rather condescending?

LC12345678US...is a customs form number. I want proof of delivery to an international destination without sending something express mail. Show me a tracking number that offers proof of delivery.

Actually no, that is not a Customs Tracking number. And you are free to wish in one hand and spit in the other but the fact is that USPS Priority mail does provide tracking as well as proof of delivery. You are of course also free to doubt that in which case you would simply once again be wrong.

In the last month or so I have shipped pens to members here from Japan and Canada and Brazil and currently one pen went through Customs and has arrived in Toronto and should get delivered tomorrow or Saturday (if Canada does Saturday delivery). I have purchased items shipped EMS from Japan with tracking all the way, from Portugal and had tracking all the way, from England but the sender used Registered Mail which means you do NOT get tracking although the item must get signed off every time it changes hands.

Really, this is pretty basic stuff and not anything arcane.

[Jon Szanto]

That was rather condescending?

Perhaps, but please try to understand why this is frustrating me. I have a number that allows me and the seller to track the package. It seemed pretty clear to me. Sorry if you're talking about something completely different that does the exact same thing.

And, having sent a package to EoC that had one of those very numbers on it, which allowed me to track the package all the way, I can verify. So I, too, have no idea why this has become contentious. Unless this stopped happening in the last few months, it really is a thing.

[VegHead]

Recently had a package from Franklin Christoph delivered to me in Australia at their cheapest rate and it was tracked all the way, which was great actually. In fact if memory serves, all my parcels from the US had tracking numbers ... Never lost a parcel either.

[sloegin]

Actually no, that is not a Customs Tracking number. And you are free to wish in one hand and spit in the other but the fact is that USPS Priority mail does provide tracking as well as proof of delivery. You are of course also free to doubt that in which case you would simply once again be wrong.

In the last month or so I have shipped pens to members here from Japan and Canada and Brazil and currently one pen went through Customs and has arrived in Toronto and should get delivered tomorrow or Saturday (if Canada does Saturday delivery). I have purchased items shipped EMS from Japan with tracking all the way, from Portugal and had tracking all the way, from England but the sender used Registered Mail which means you do NOT get tracking although the item must get signed off every time it changes hands.

Really, this is pretty basic stuff and not anything arcane.

It is a customs form number.

Then you should have no problem coming up with a tracking number to share. That is all I'm asking for, to verify delivery of an international parcel.

[jar]

Actually no, that is not a Customs Tracking number. And you are free to wish in one hand and spit in the other but the fact is that USPS Priority mail does provide tracking as well as proof of delivery. You are of course also free to doubt that in which case you would simply once again be wrong.

In the last month or so I have shipped pens to members here from Japan and Canada and Brazil and currently one pen went through Customs and has arrived in Toronto and should get delivered tomorrow or Saturday (if Canada does Saturday delivery). I have purchased items shipped EMS from Japan with tracking all the way, from Portugal and had tracking all the way, from England but the sender used Registered Mail which means you do NOT get tracking although the item must get signed off every time it changes hands.

Really, this is pretty basic stuff and not anything arcane.

It is a customs form number.

Then you should have no problem coming up with a tracking number to share. That is all I'm asking for, to verify delivery of an international parcel.

You really like just being wrong don't you?

Tracking numbers appear on mail and international mail also includes guess what, a customs declaration.

As I said, you are free to remain as ignorant as you want but the reality is USPS tracking numbers were both domestically and internationally.

How it works

Post/EMS numbers have the format EE123456789XX

• We use the last 2 letters to automatically send the request to the correct country
• In some cases we use the 2 first letters to select the type of tracking to use
• If the country is not supported or you want to select a specific country you can do this manually after tracking

If you know of any countries offering tracking that is not included please contact us!

[migo984]

It is a customs form number.

Then you should have no problem coming up with a tracking number to share. That is all I'm asking for, to verify delivery of an international parcel.

That is a tracking number. It is the UPU (Universal Postal Union) S10 number. The UPU S10 standard defines a global system for assigning 13-character identifiers to items for the purpose of tracking and tracing them during shipping. It is worth noting that, dependent on the receiving country, sometimes you have to ask your local postal service to check tracking for you as it isn't always available online direct by customers, but usually it's pretty straightforward to do it yourself.

So all packages with an S10 can indeed be tracked.

UPU number rules
( # Letter, * Digit, ! Letter Or Digit ) (## *** *** *** ##)
Each tracking number consists of 2 letters, 9 digits and the last 2 letters are two-letter country codes of the origin country.


«A» - Mail is not insured (less than 2 kg)
«R» - Registered Mail (less than 2 kg)
«V» - Registered Mail (Insured）(less than 2 kg)
«C» - Ordinary Parcel (more than 2 kg)
«L» - Airmail E-packet (less than 2 kg)
«E» - Express Mail Service (EMS more than 2 kg)


Eg: EX012857277SG is an Express Mail Service(EMS) shipped by Singapore Post.


(The Universal Postal Union is a specialised agency of the United Nations that coordinates postal policies among member nations. It is a world postal international organisation, and the UPU currently has 192 members (190 country states and two joint memberships of dependent territories groups).

[CaptainRon]

Actually no, that is not a Customs Tracking number. And you are free to wish in one hand and spit in the other but the fact is that USPS Priority mail does provide tracking as well as proof of delivery. You are of course also free to doubt that in which case you would simply once again be wrong.

In the last month or so I have shipped pens to members here from Japan and Canada and Brazil and currently one pen went through Customs and has arrived in Toronto and should get delivered tomorrow or Saturday (if Canada does Saturday delivery). I have purchased items shipped EMS from Japan with tracking all the way, from Portugal and had tracking all the way, from England but the sender used Registered Mail which means you do NOT get tracking although the item must get signed off every time it changes hands.

Really, this is pretty basic stuff and not anything arcane.

It is a customs form number.

Then you should have no problem coming up with a tracking number to share. That is all I'm asking for, to verify delivery of an international parcel.

I'm not sure why you won't believe so many people saying they've received tracking. But since you want proof, here it is.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...=LZ962715276US

There's a package I sent to Australia. Shows tracking and delivery. And yes, the delivery date is accurate.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...=RL586445572IE

This is a package I had sent to me from Ireland. Shows tracking and delivery to my door.


Settled?

Edit to add a screenshot from USPS

[FredRydr]

This is getting silly.

Fred