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Thread: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

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    Senior Member Waski_the_Squirrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I'll concede that I do enjoy Noodler's products. But, I think the owner of the company is his own worst enemy. He injects his own personal opinion and biases into the products. This appeals to some, and turns others off. His reactions to criticism have also turned people off.

    I respect him as an artist. He has created some beautiful inks. I also really respect that he put flex pens into the hands of the rest of us. Whatever you think of his pens, they are a good attempt at a steel-nib flex pen. You also get to learn about how pens work.

    But, like other artists, his personality can get in the way. I don't see him much as a businessman. Clearly he is making a living at this, but his personality has gotten in the way of what the company could be. Other voices might temper some of the extremes, improve the quality control and consistency, and keep out the politics. On the other hand, other voices might put a stop to his unique character and ideas of the brand.

    So, back to the original idea, Nathan Tardif himself is the reason this brand is so polarizing. We don't hear this kind of talk about other brands like KWZ, De Atramentis, or Private Reserve. In those brands, the owners' personalities recede to the background.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I love Noodler's inks, and both the Ahab and the Konrad, but I don't much like his videos (I stopped after two of them, when I decided that they were going to continue in the same vein). I don't see any deep reason to begrudge the man his opinions, even if you don't share them. Actually, I wish he would get some more humor or even greater eccentricity in his names and labels.

    I don't much like his ink inconsistency, though. At least so far he has not messed up the straight blue....yet. But I am done buying his Golden Brown.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Thanks I am a bit lairy of Iron gall inks because i heard they are high maintenance too. Are any in those two's standard line reasonably water resistant? (TSW and Oster)I do like a permanent or at least fairly non smudge when damp ink as I always have tea/ coffee or water on the go when writing and I am clumsy
    Last edited by matteob; January 8th, 2017 at 08:04 PM.

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    Senior Member KKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I happen to like Noodler's, and Mr. Tardif. (I don't know him personally) He makes products at a reasonable price. Because of him I got to use a flex pen. You can call it semi-flex, I don't care. All I know is, I find it enjoyable to use. It does require tinkering with, there is no doubt about that. I have also tried a few of his inks. Some I liked a lot, a couple I didn't. His quality control does need a little more attention. I happen to like his thoughts on pens, ink, and history. I think he is quite a character. Whether you like him, or hate him...he stands out. I admire that. He doesn't candy coat it, or anything. What you see is what you get. That is a great quality in my opinion. I won't be buying the color that is so notorious, but I imagine I will get some of his ink in the future. I have 3 in mind already. My daughter recently bought me Navajo Turquoise. It is really pretty in a flex pen, to me.

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    Senior Member pengeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I tend to enjoy different inks,but one color that Nathan Tardiff makes I enjoy is Ottoman Azure Blue
    .....beautiful shade of blue.


    John

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by pengeezer View Post
    I tend to enjoy different inks,but one color that Nathan Tardiff makes I enjoy is Ottoman Azure Blue
    .....beautiful shade of blue.


    John
    Ottoman Rose is also quite beautiful.

    It all boils down to product quality for me. If the stuff is good and works well, why should the man's politics matter?

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    One thing I don't see mentioned often is his artwork. I don't know whether he does this himself but my Ahab instruction leaflet had a fahtastic bit of drawing of Captain Ahab and the Whale on the other side. if Nathan drew this himself he is pretty talented.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Well the ink line berning red was a red colored ink made for left handed writers with Bernie Sanders on the etiquette. Get it...red ... left handed ...

    It's a personal statement regarding politics for sure, but I found it amusing and a clever idea. Some people dislike that. I think it's more of a cultural thing as well. Americans don't like to expose their political beliefs as much, from what I gathered from my interactions with them.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    It's weird because in an interview he gave he sounds quite left wing saying he wants to make affordable pens for everyone and lamenting how poor and how bad students have it right now.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    I think it's more of a cultural thing as well. Americans don't like to expose their political beliefs as much, from what I gathered from my interactions with them.
    Of course, "Americans", just as any other group of people, are not all alike, nor do they share the same attitudes and beliefs.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    From what I've heard him say, I suspect Nathan is more or less libertarian, at least in principle. If I have that right, he might say that we should all do our part to solve problems like that rather than relying on the heavy hand of government to do it.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    From what I've heard him say, I suspect Nathan is more or less libertarian, at least in principle. If I have that right, he might say that we should all do our part to solve problems like that rather than relying on the heavy hand of government to do it.
    Yeah, he's pretty libertarian. IIRC, he's in the anti-tax anti-debt camp. He can take the morally superior, "we should have never let things get so bad!" as opposed a "how can we fix the problem at hand?" approach to politics. Easy to condemn looking back. Much harder to change going forward.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Also, Nathan has VERY strong opinions about Patriotism, Politics, and Fraud -- all of which I happen to agree with. When it comes to these topics, you either "get it" or you "don't get it". His ink names carry the topics, for instance the Bernanke inks. These inks are named that because of the Federal Reserve System, which Nathan and I agree with is nothing but FRAUD and one of the reasons for the downfall of America.

    A lot of the inks have a "wartime" connotation....again, for the very same reasons.

    Like I said, you either "get it" or "don't get it".....there is no in-between on these topics.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie2112 View Post
    Like I said, you either "get it" or "don't get it".....there is no in-between on these topics.
    You either agree or disagree.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    The cup is either half full, or half empty.

    Jesus said, "Whoever is not with me is against me."

    You are either for Noodler's or against it.

    Any more reductive binary options out there?

    Wait, is Nathan Tardiff, Jesus?

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie2112 View Post
    Like I said, you either "get it" or "don't get it".....there is no in-between on these topics.
    Not for me. I can completely understand why he does what he does, fervently support his right to do so, and still think he can be a total numbskull at times. In fact, I'd say the opposite: "there is a lot of nuance on these topics".
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Personally I have just had too many issues, with too many their products. Many of the inks are inconstant and have... "behavioral" issues in most pens. Like him, loathe him, I don't care; I have just had too many issues with the products to want to buy any more of them. This is personal experience and not hear say or conjecture.

    I purposefully replaced "him" and "his" with "their" to differentiate the brand from the man... even though that is very hard most of the time.
    Sam O

    "A fountain pen with a bad nib is like a Ferrari with a flat tyre..." - Brian Gray, Edison pens

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    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    Personally I have just had too many issues, with too many their products.
    Same here, though to me it feels less like I'm moving on "for cause" than just moving on for lack of a reason not to. As I've said before, the dry times on Tomoe River, which seem to creep up the longer the ink has been in the pen, just made me choose other inks.

    I'm happy to have and use the LE ink King Philip Requiem, but despite having bought dozens of bottles of ink and several Noodler's pens, that's actually the only Noodler's product I still own.
    --
    Mike

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    ... though to me it feels less like I'm moving on "for cause" than just moving on for lack of a reason not to.
    That's an interesting point. When I got into all this, about 6-7 years ago, Nathan already had the broadest range of interestingly-hued inks. Imports of Diamine and Private Reserve were coming on, and few if any of the boutique inks existed, or had much market share. Noodler's represented a panorama of interesting choices, were at a good price point, and gave people who wanted to stray from the boring old Big Manufacturer inks a playground. I found inks I liked and inks I didn't (fortunately, almost always through samples - I'm glad the Goulet's started around when I did!).

    Now, the terrain is vastly different. There as so many inks available today, many with superior behavior and remarkable colors and properties. Anyone who was as gifted a concoctionist as Mr. Tardiff will always make some unique inks, and I think he has some that will - or should be - around for quite a while. The bottom line, however, is that with the explosion of a rainbow of inks with stable properties and other innovations, his basic model may be coming close to running it's course. Most importantly, Mike's last comment rings loudest: there are now reasons to look elsewhere, and people are.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    That settles it! I am marching upstairs RIGHT NOW and filling one of my evil-smelling Ahabs with General of the Armies, which looks like poster paint.

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