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Thread: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

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    Senior Member sgtstretch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    ... though to me it feels less like I'm moving on "for cause" than just moving on for lack of a reason not to.
    That's an interesting point. When I got into all this, about 6-7 years ago, Nathan already had the broadest range of interestingly-hued inks. Imports of Diamine and Private Reserve were coming on, and few if any of the boutique inks existed, or had much market share. Noodler's represented a panorama of interesting choices, were at a good price point, and gave people who wanted to stray from the boring old Big Manufacturer inks a playground. I found inks I liked and inks I didn't (fortunately, almost always through samples - I'm glad the Goulet's started around when I did!).

    Now, the terrain is vastly different. There as so many inks available today, many with superior behavior and remarkable colors and properties. Anyone who was as gifted a concoctionist as Mr. Tardiff will always make some unique inks, and I think he has some that will - or should be - around for quite a while. The bottom line, however, is that with the explosion of a rainbow of inks with stable properties and other innovations, his basic model may be coming close to running it's course. Most importantly, Mike's last comment rings loudest: there are now reasons to look elsewhere, and people are.
    Exactly, when I first got into fountain pens, my first two bottles were Noodler's inks, and I tried numerous samples of Noodler's inks. Now with brands like KWZ, and Robert Oster on the market, I tend to look to them first, and Sailor's specialty inks, although on the expensive side, are quite easy to get through Vanness Pens. I currently have 3 bottles of Noodler's (Black, Liberty's Elysium, & BSiAR), but I don't really see myself picking up more.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Hmmm interesting point on behaviour. I like permanent inks and I have found Noodlers inks to be the easiest to rinse out and the least hassle of all permenent inks. Both Iron gall and pigment inks are risky if you don't use them regularly. All I will say is so s run a little wet. As to the Tomoe River drying times well ai don't know as I don't like coated paper and don't like paying high prices for paper so just use regular toothy paper, sometimes s bit thicker for a fountain pen like a CIAK journal for instance. I have had no issues at all with the inks with regular paper. As to the pens, well my Ahab is a bit finicky and have to adjust it sometimes but it is a good and affordable way into flex pens. It doesn't smell either!

    As to political opinions: unless someone is really nasty like racist, homophobic etc, it doesn't bother me. I think Nathan would be an interesting guy to go for a beer with.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Most of his inks that he says are water resistant are often not so much. I test inks like crazy on different sturdy papers as an artist and gave up on his inks. I gave them away except for Lexington Grey, which I use in grisaille (shadow) work -- that way, if it moves a bit, it is okay. I find his pens to fall apart and his inks from batch to batch are so off -- not a teeny bit like a dye lot off -- but sometimes wildly off.


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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    The couple of Noodler's inks I've tested so far were absolutely, 100% waterproof. I put droplets on the page and let sit, ran it under water, attempted to smear, and saw not the slightest hint of smearing or lost pigment.

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    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I've seen both scenarios. For example, IIRC, Bad Blue Heron and Bad Belted Kingfisher are both "bulletproof", but one of them (the latter, I think) will shed something if it gets wet.
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    With inks that bond to the cellulose, like for instance Heart of Darkness, if you have a nib that writes wetter than the paper can take, it builds up in a layer on top of the written line. When it is run under water, that excess ink runs. It is not the ink that is bonded to the paper that runs.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Because internet forums need the vitriol!

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I think a lot has to do with the fact with Noodler's you need to do your research before trying a new ink. Noodler's is a brand that is, across the board, aimed toward fountain pen users who are enthusiasts and like to experiment. So the brand tries a lot of different things, ink components, pen designs, capabilities, etc. Because of this, one should do their own homework before buying an ink, or pen, or using a particular Noodler's ink in a particular pen. Possibly some didn't do their homework and some might have a problem like staining an old pen for instance. Then they might experience an increase in ire and which is expressed in the usual digital way.

    Personally, I love Noodler's inks for their saturation and bold colors. Some behave beautifully, some not as well. Because of the saturation they do seem to require a bit more effort cleaning and more frequent cleaning but saturation like any capability of a design is a trade off. In this case you trade ease of maintenance, and a possibility of more difficult cleaning for the beautiful, saturated colors. I also believe fountain pen inks should - advance with the times - and have modern capabilities like forgery resistance. Which is another reason I like Noodler's inks.

    Other people might be into fountain pens for nostalgic or collector reasons. They may want fountain pen inks to be like the inks of earlier times, and behave with a set of behaviors from those days. That's a fine choice and completely up to them, but maybe Noodler's isn't for them. It doesn't mean Noodler's is bad. It just means Noodler's is not aimed at their set of expectations.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armstrong View Post
    I also believe fountain pen inks should - advance with the times - and have modern capabilities like forgery resistance. Which is another reason I like Noodler's inks.
    To be honest, I'm not sure the last time I signed something that wasn't digital/electronic and needed to be done with a pen. When it *was* done with a pen, it was done with gel ink, which is the most fraud-proof ink you can use. Assuming the signature wasn't faked from the get go, of course.

    Speaking of fraud and fountain pens, here is an interesting article I found regarding just that thing: http://floridaforeclosurefraud.com/2...m-foreclosure/

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Yes, I have a gel pen with these properties. Thanks for the link, interesting.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawler View Post
    With inks that bond to the cellulose, like for instance Heart of Darkness, if you have a nib that writes wetter than the paper can take, it builds up in a layer on top of the written line. When it is run under water, that excess ink runs. It is not the ink that is bonded to the paper that runs.
    I believe that is what happens with some and not with others. I seem to recall trying my best with Bad Belted Kingfisher, and what I found (with my bottle) was that there was simply no realistic possibility of laying down a line so dry that nothing would run when it was rinsed.

    It occurs to me that the kind of water resistance required by an artist is both more and less than what many of the cellulose-reactive inks can provide.
    --
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I'm probably repeating myself, but Bad Green Gator is truly waterproof. It is my check-writing and watercolor-sketching ink. But once it's in a pen, it's never coming out; that stuff is like shellac.

    I keep it in a green Hero...the one with the metal Star Trek insignia on the hood.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I only have few bottles Noodlerˋs ink so I canˋt talk about their whole product line of inks.

    Agreed the colors can be nice and they have some awesome effect shaders like Apache Sunset.

    What I do not like is the missing long term stability in pens (of the inks I own)

    Let e.g. Apache Sunset or Golden brown sit in a pen unused for about a month.
    The ink will turn in a sticky kind of oily liquid which will never ever dry on paper anymore.

    This is Apache Sunset after a month in a pen:

    Noodlers_response_06


    Noodlers_response_03


    Noodlers_response_05


    But maybe I’m completely wrong and the missing long term stability is not a flaw but a hidden hardcopy feature and Noodler’s only forgot to advertise this hidden feature.

    Here you can see a excellent example of the hidden hardcopy feature using golden brown.

    Show_response_22


    Also people often complain about the the missing consistency of ink batches.
    The same ink always should look and behave the same, everything else is a lack of quality and missing professionalism.


    I do not know the quality of the current pens (as I would not buy them anymore), but the previous pens like the Ahab had a terrible building quality.
    The grinds on the nibs were poor and not constant, the parts were cheap, quality control not existent - some wrote quite ok some not at all,.... overall I consider the Ahab a quite crappy pen. Itˋs not worth the money comparing it with pens of renowned pen companies (e.g. Parker, Lamy, Waterman, Pelikan,....) at a similar price point.

    I already know what the answer is: But it’s a tinker pen, bla, bla, bla......

    Did you know that neither the Ahab nor their “flex” nib was developed by Noodler’s even Mr. Tardif claims that?
    The pen Noodler’s called Ahab later together with the “flex” nib were a product from an (quite unknown) Indian pen company (donˋt remember the name right now) and sold locally before they bought it from them.

    Personally I also can’t stand the smell of their vegetable plastic, it just almost make me puke
    But this is as said a personal thing.

    Don’t get me wrong, I played many hours with Ahab pens and the “flex” nib.
    Modified the nib (EMF - Ease My Flex mod) to get more flex and also the feed to keep at least somehow up (and learned a lot from it).
    But this pen is not for average users, and people getting start with such a pen might never ever want to use a fountain pen anymore (thinking all of them are like these).


    Mr. Tardif for sure is a talented showman who can market himself and his products quite well.
    Last edited by Pterodactylus; November 28th, 2019 at 11:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Just looked the original maker of the Ahab up as this for sure will be a question.

    The pen later become known as the Noodlerˋs Ahab is the Kanwrite Heritage


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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    I have no problem with Mr. Tardif's politics, but I've never had good luck with his inks. For bulletproof (bombproof, actually, including won't fade in direct sunlight), I really like the DeAtramentis document inks.

    Meanwhile, I'm curious about something related to this thread. There is someone on this forum who says he is Nathan Tardif, but I seem to recall one or more people disputing that claim. Does anyone know anything about this?
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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    I have no problem with Mr. Tardif's politics, but I've never had good luck with his inks. For bulletproof (bombproof, actually, including won't fade in direct sunlight), I really like the DeAtramentis document inks.

    Meanwhile, I'm curious about something related to this thread. There is someone on this forum who says he is Nathan Tardif, but I seem to recall one or more people disputing that claim. Does anyone know anything about this?
    I remember these threads/posts for me personally this guy was not very convincing.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    That’s absurd. Nathan Tardif announced way back when that he was working on ink line which he claimed would be like Skrip. That’s not what Noodlers turned out to be, but i still have no doubt that the man behind the ink is Nathan. The libertarian/nationalist politics are another point of continuity.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    I have no problem with Mr. Tardif's politics, but I've never had good luck with his inks. For bulletproof (bombproof, actually, including won't fade in direct sunlight), I really like the DeAtramentis document inks.

    Meanwhile, I'm curious about something related to this thread. There is someone on this forum who says he is Nathan Tardif, but I seem to recall one or more people disputing that claim. Does anyone know anything about this?
    At the official Noodler's Ink site is a warning that Nathan posted. Click on the box to the right that says "Warning! Scam Alert"

    http://noodlersink.com/


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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    For those who do not remember similar previous threads which might be interesting to continue reading:

    https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...h-Brian-Goulet


    https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...-Noodler-s-Ink
    Last edited by Pterodactylus; November 29th, 2019 at 03:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

    No animosity, I just won't spend any more money on his inks: they are too much of a crapshoot.

    When I buy a bottle of ink, I expect it to be well behaved and consistent from batch to batch. Once Noodlers manages to meet that low bar, I'll reconsider.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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