Why the level of animosity to Noodlers and Nathan Tardiff.

[matteob]

I am fairly new to the forum scene and I have seen quite a bit of vitriol towards the above. I have some of Noodlers Inks and pens and I like both especially his blacks. I can understand others may not but why is the criticism so aggressive and personal? Especially as he seems to do all he can to make his products affordable.

For myself I admire small artisans and businesses and try to support them

[Dreck]

It's been covered ad nauseum in the forums. If you use the search function, you'll probably find more than you care to know. If I recall correctly, one of the threads had a title almost identical to this one

[Jon Szanto]

As Dreck said, this is a topic that has been discussed many, many times over. There are reasons for some of the strong opinions, in no small part to the strong opinions of Mr. Tardiff himself. I would suggest good web searches and forum searches to find some of the background on all of this.

[matteob]

Ok did not want to muck rake was just curious. As I say I like his products

[Dreck]

Ok did not want to muck rake was just curious. As I say I like his products

The search function is your friend. There's a proverb on why God gave us 2 each of eyes and ears and only one mouth.

[SIR]

Ok did not want to muck rake was just curious. As I say I like his products

Short answer: the pens fall apart quickly (personal experience) and the inks melt pens from the inside out (other folks' experience).

I have no personal animosity towards the proprietor but would suggest he invest just a little more in research, development, and quality control.

[resipsa]

I like his products, too.

He is honest. You know where he stands.

And he adds value: e.g., fills ink bottles to absolute top and does not use wasteful cartridges.

I think Mr. Tardiff often gets a 'bad rap'.

[mhosea]

No worries, just weariness. Here's a long thread: http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread....Noodler-s-Ink?

[resipsa]

Thanks for thread.

[Ole Juul]

Thanks for thread.

There's a longer thread on the same theme that you might like to read through. Some posts are quite informative. Others, not so much.
https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...-Noodler-s-Ink

[jar]

I don't think animosity is really the right word; after all, Nathan and Noodler's is not significant enough to warrant that much attention.

[resipsa]

Very pompous . . . .



"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

[resipsa]

Very pompous . . . .



"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

Nathan Tardiff is a good man.
He has saved members lots of money illustrating how dumb it i to use cartridges.
I am a supporter of Nathan . . . .

[matteob]

Are you talking about ink sacs here and is it only the bay state blue ink? I use noodlers but in pens with metal, plastic and ebonite bodies, converters and feeds with no issues. I have heard apocryphal stories of it perishing rubber feeds so i might have to try another ink, Diamene Sapphire Blue for example in the vintage pens with sacs. I hear that is pretty water resistant.Nathan's pens of course are all celluloid, ebonite or acrylic with ebonite feeds and don't suffer issues.

[mhosea]

Are you talking about ink sacs here and is it only the bay state blue ink? I use noodlers but in pens with metal, plastic and ebonite bodies, converters and feeds with no issues. I have heard apocryphal stories of it perishing rubber feeds so i might have to try another ink, Diamene Sapphire Blue for example in the vintage pens with sacs. I hear that is pretty water resistant.Nathan's pens of course are all celluloid, ebonite or acrylic with ebonite feeds and don't suffer issues.

I'll try to summarize, as I know that researching this stuff takes a lot of time if you weren't part of the discussions as they evolved over the years.

Baystate Blue has been reported to chemically melt SOME plastic feeds. I've seen photos of Sheaffer plastic feeds (cartridge pen) and the feed of a Pilot VP that do appear to have been chemically damaged by it. Earlier there were reports of Lamy feeds deteriorating, but my understanding was that this occurrence is convoluted with a bad batch of Lamy feeds and not specific to Noodler's inks. As I was not involved in any of those discussions at the time, my understanding on that should not be given weight. At any rate, nobody understands why many people can use BSB with plastic feeds and never have a problem, but once in a great while there is damage that seems to be chemical in nature. It is a chemistry and materials mystery.

No other Noodler's Inks have been accused of melting feeds.

Noodler's inks in general have been accused of causing premature latex sac failures and (specifically, AFAIK) deterioration of Pelikan rubber piston heads. Here again, nobody can explain why this only happens occasionally. When I work with latex gloves on and expose them to some particular solvents, they fail very reliably and quickly. That's not the way it goes down with Noodler's Inks. In my experience, you simply cannot take a latex sac trimming, expose it to Noodler's Ink, and melt it on demand, not in hours, days, months, or even a year. I've had one trimming go gooey in a controlled experiment, but only one of many. I couldn't make it happen again.

Other than staining in some cases (hardly specific to Noodler's), there have been no reports of damage to celluloid or hard rubber anything. I did read one claim that a particular Noodler's ink had deteriorated the (sterling silver) breather tube in a Parker 51, but it did not come from a person who restores 51's, and my experience with that is, because of Parker Superchrome ink or whatever, those things are frequently eroded and "about to go" if the pen got used back in its day. Finally, AFAIK there has been exactly one report of Noodler's Ink melting an old PVC sac, but that was probably a coincidence, IMHO. I have never heard of anyone installing a new PVC sac, using Noodler's Ink, and seeing it fail. Latex, yes, PVC, no.

[dkatiepowellart]

Most of his inks that he says are water resistant are often not so much. I test inks like crazy on different sturdy papers as an artist and gave up on his inks. I gave them away except for Lexington Grey, which I use in grisaille (shadow) work -- that way, if it moves a bit, it is okay. I find his pens to fall apart and his inks from batch to batch are so off -- not a teeny bit like a dye lot off -- but sometimes wildly off.

[KBeezie]

Most of his inks that he says are water resistant are often not so much. I test inks like crazy on different sturdy papers as an artist and gave up on his inks. I gave them away except for Lexington Grey, which I use in grisaille (shadow) work -- that way, if it moves a bit, it is okay. I find his pens to fall apart and his inks from batch to batch are so off -- not a teeny bit like a dye lot off -- but sometimes wildly off.

Depends, some of the ones marked "bulletproof" can settle over time, and may need a really good agitation/shake otherwise you mostly fill with the content on top which may either take forever to dry, or won't be water resistant. (not a huge fan of the pens)

Far as my perception of noodler's inks in general. They're very affordable, that makes it attractive to new users. But they are also available in a huge range of properties. So where with something like Pilot, Waterman, Pelikan, etc the inks tend to all behave about the same with just different colors. With Noodler's there are the very "easy" inks and the more temperamental ones depending on what you are filling with it. Likewise because of the huge variety, pen maintenance is also much more important.

Like KTC is a nice purple, but you can't just go sticking it into any pen, especially if it's a cheap one without good cap sealing. And certainly not one you want to run the risk of it drying up in.

The main four I've kept around and used has been :
- X-Feather (my every day utilitarian black that's waterproof and tends to behave with most paper, used to use Black Eel before this one)
- Apache Sunset (easy to clean, nice pretty color, varies on paper depending on nib/wetness)
- Texas Blue Steel (a Dromgoole exclusive, one of the nicer teals I've had before switching over to Tsuki-yo, runs a bit wet, but is bulletproof).
- Kung Te-Cheng (Nice solid purple, no real shading, waterproof, doesn't feather much for me, I keep it inked in an eye droppered Platinum Preppy)

[matteob]

I'm a newbie so thanks for updating me, shame about some of the blunt replies. It hardly makes a new member feel welcome I have just heard loads of scare stories. Only been on the forums a few weeks and only recently started coming back to fountain pens again, mainly because I like tactility of then and in Noodlers I thought I had found a safe nom iron gall/pigment ink in X Feather that would work on cheap paper in the same way as the Uniball Gel pens ai used to carry.

[Marsilius]

Welcome. Regarding feeling welcome, you are indeed welcome!: Just pretend you sat down at a big dinner table with a family that knows each other and is getting grumpy or being direct in front of you from the start rather than being all polite at first. Good folks here. Plain spoken. But good.

[SIR]

I'm a newbie so thanks for updating me, shame about some of the blunt replies. It hardly makes a new member feel welcome I have just heard loads of scare stories. Only been on the forums a few weeks and only recently started coming back to fountain pens again, mainly because I like tactility of then and in Noodlers I thought I had found a safe nom iron gall/pigment ink in X Feather that would work on cheap paper in the same way as the Uniball Gel pens ai used to carry.

You are definitely welcome; please don't take blunt replies to a subject some of us may feel 'bluntly' about personally.

Also; please, please, please get some samples of KWZ inks - if you like supporting independent ventures and hand crafted products, in addition to enjoying fantastic inks, you will be truly missing out without some KWZ in your ink collection.

http://kwzink.com/language/en/manufa...standard-inks/
(no affiliation)