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Thread: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

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    Default Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    In the past I've posted about the Pilot, Sailor and Platinum "Balance" style pens but for this series I'd like to concentrate on the Flat Top ones. Platinum does not offer a similar selection under their branding so for this it will be just Sailor and Pilot. I will begin with the larger ones first.

    The Sailor series starts with the King of Pen Pro Gear while from Pilot I will look at the Custom (why is it not a Custom Heritage model) 845. Both will be black with gold furniture.



    First the BORING DETAILS.


    In the past I have reviewed a Pilot Custom 845 in Vermilion and found it a difficult and confusing pen. I really wanted to like it but found it was one of the few pens I simply could not enjoy so sold it. That one had a BB nib so I ordered a Medium nib black version and this one I found far more pleasant, yet still a difficult and confusing pen. It's really close to being a great pen but still falls short when compared to other somewhat similar pens I own.

    The Urushi on this versions has greater depth than the vermilion urushi but still nowhere near the depth found on a Platinum Izumo or Nakaya. This example is still moderately wet but no where near the gusher of the vermilion and the medium nib is smooth, controllable and responsive. But while there were no discernible seams on the section of the vermilion whether checked with a loupe or by feel, this one definitely has seams and they are prominent enough to catch with a fingernail. I have a 743 that uses the same section but as with the vermilion the 743 has no discernible seams on the section.

    If this is supposed to be the best pen marketed under the Pilot brand why can they not deliver one where you do not see or feel the seams on the section?

    As with the Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear this is a cartridge/converter and uses Pilot's proprietary versions.


    The Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear being reviewed is the basic resin/plastic model. It is slightly shorter than the Pilot Custom 845 when capped, unposted or posted but also considerably wider.


    Like the Pilot Custom 845 the KoP Pro Gear is a cartridge/converter pen and uses Sailor's proprietary versions.


    Notice how much more metal there is compared to the inside of the Pilot Custom 845.

    BUT... it is precisely that extra metal that makes this pen one of the absolute finest pens I own. That extra metal sits forward of where the pen body sits on the webbing between my thumb and hand when writing. That gives the pen a slight forward bias in balance. Yet The cap weighs 12.8g while the section with a cartridge inserted weighs 12.6g. That means when used posted the balance point falls exactly at the webbing between thumb and hand and the pen feels weightless. The only pens I can think of that balance so well are the Sheaffer pens built on the PFM/Legacy model, Montegrappa Classicas, Aurora Hastil and the ST Dupont Orpheo/Olympios.


    The pen also fits perfectly in my shirt pockets and has perhaps the best, most pocket friendly clip I've ever found. Unfortunately the Pilot Custom 845 uses the ball end Custom clip that is among the most pocket unfriendly clips I've found but more on that when we move on to the other sizes.

    In summary; I can find absolutely nothing I'd change on the Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear and the Pilot Custom 845 once again while there is absolutely nothing truly bad about the 845 it is even more disappointing that they did not take the few extra steps that would have made it a GREAT pen.
    Last edited by jar; February 12th, 2017 at 10:51 AM. Reason: appalin spallin

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Great review as always.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    The next segment will compare the Sailor Pro Gear and the Pilot Custom Heritage 912.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    The next segment will compare the Sailor Pro Gear and the Pilot Custom Heritage 912.
    Eagerly awaiting this one... Thanks in advance!

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by BayesianPrior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    The next segment will compare the Sailor Pro Gear and the Pilot Custom Heritage 912.
    Eagerly awaiting this one... Thanks in advance!
    Coming today.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    As threatened, the next pair to be compared are the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 and the Sailor Pro Gear. Like the first pair, here the Pilot pen is longer, lighter but also skinnier.

    With that introductory remark; here are the Boring Details:



    And the two pens:


    The width difference is not as great as it is between the Pilot Custom 845 and the Sailor Pro Gear King of Pen but is still really noticeable in hand. The section on the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 measures 11.4mm at its widest and 10.75mm near the nib. The Sailor Pro Gear though measures 11.48mm near the threads and 10.95mm down near the nib. As I said, a small difference but enough to make a big difference in how the two pens feel in my hand. The section on the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 is longer than on the Sailor Pro Gear and for many that might be a bigger influence than section width.


    Both pens balance well, both use proprietary cartridge/converter standards, both are moderately wet with the Pilot once again being slightly wetter than the Sailor. Both are long enough to use when not posted, post securely if desired and are balanced either way.


    This example of a Pilot 912 has a factory stub nib and frankly it falls very short when compared to factory stub nibs from other makers. It is okay but I would rate it as the least pleasant of all my factory stub nibs. The Sailor has a medium nib and it is typical Sailor, moderately wet and very smooth but with pleasant feedback.

    Next will be the Pilot Custom Heritage 91 and the Sailor Pro Gear Slim.
    Last edited by jar; February 13th, 2017 at 05:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Really enjoy these comparisons! You said the pro gear balances well compared to the Pilot but how is the Pro Gear balance compared to the KOP balance? Is the KOP noticeably better?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by hansdown View Post
    Really enjoy these comparisons! You said the pro gear balances well compared to the Pilot but how is the Pro Gear balance compared to the KOP balance? Is the KOP noticeably better?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    They are different. I would not say one was better than the other. The balance of the Sailor Pro Gear KoP is really perfect when posted but definitely nib heavy when not posted. The Sailor Pro Gear does not have as large a contrast simply because it is so much lighter. Look at the Boring Details above. The Sailor Pro Gear KoP is 10g (almost 50%) heavier than the Sailor Pro Gear. That's a really big difference. The Custom 845 is less than 3g heavier than the 912 as a reference.

    They are quite different but not better or worse.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hansdown View Post
    Really enjoy these comparisons! You said the pro gear balances well compared to the Pilot but how is the Pro Gear balance compared to the KOP balance? Is the KOP noticeably better?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    They are different. I would not say one was better than the other. The balance of the Sailor Pro Gear KoP is really perfect when posted but definitely nib heavy when not posted. The Sailor Pro Gear does not have as large a contrast simply because it is so much lighter. Look at the Boring Details above. The Sailor Pro Gear KoP is 10g (almost 50%) heavier than the Sailor Pro Gear. That's a really big difference. The Custom 845 is less than 3g heavier than the 912 as a reference.

    They are quite different but not better or worse.
    Thanks! I think I will need to try them both in hand, hopefully at a pen show sometime this year. Having large hands I'm betting the KOP will feel best. I also tend to post pens because of having large hands.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Many thanks for posting this, jar. For those of us without access to shops or shows it is really useful to see such comparisons. More data, hopefully better decisions eh?

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Now for the smallest pair, the Pilot Custom 91 and the Sailor Pro Gear Slim. As usual. let's begin with the Boring Details:




    Many things are still the same, the Sailor is still shorter than the Pilot and the Pilot nib is wetter than the sailor but there are also differences. In this pair the Sailor is also lighter and the section is a hair skinnier than on the Pilot. The Pilot varies from 10.8mm near the threads to 9.95mm near the nib while the Sailor varies from 10.5mm near the threads to 9.8mm near the nib.


    Again, the section on the Pilot is slightly longer than on the Sailor and for some that may be important.

    The Pilot is long enough to use without posting but the Sailor really does feel best posted.


    Both have always been utterly reliable, smooth, forgiving and both are definitely shirt pocket friendly. Of the two the sailor gets the most pocket time but that's because it's PURPLE!!!
    Last edited by jar; February 14th, 2017 at 03:17 PM. Reason: appalin spallin

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Thanks for all these comparisons they are very helpful.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Nice comparison! Thanks for putting this together.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    I am noticing a trend where Pilot tends to be the longer of the two comparably sized pens.
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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    I am noticing a trend where Pilot tends to be the longer of the two comparably sized pens.
    Absolutely. This held true even in the "Balance" shaped pens as well. In general the Pilot pens were the longest and wettest but also the thinnest when looking at the pens from Pilot, Sailor and Platinum.


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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    I am noticing a trend where Pilot tends to be the longer of the two comparably sized pens.
    Absolutely. This held true even in the "Balance" shaped pens as well. In general the Pilot pens were the longest and wettest but also the thinnest when looking at the pens from Pilot, Sailor and Platinum.

    I am not sure why I never really got into Sailor pens, I like the look. I only have two Sailors. A Pro Gear Slim and a Lecoule. Oddly I like the Lecoule nib over the Pro Gear Slims Naginata nib. (I might have the nib wrong, I have to look it up, but it's one of the special nib grinds.)

    * Looked it up, Naginata Togi on my Pro Gear Slim.
    Last edited by KrazyIvan; February 15th, 2017 at 07:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    I am not sure why I never really got into Sailor pens, I like the look. I only have two Sailors. A Pro Gear Slim and a Lecoule. Oddly I like the Lecoule nib over the Pro Gear Slims Naginata nib. (I might have the nib wrong, I have to look it up, but it's one of the special nib grinds.)

    * Looked it up, Naginata Togi on my Pro Gear Slim.
    That is certainly understandable. The Naginata Togi nib is something that certainly requires practice to use successfully and is meant for more of an artistic function then general communication function. It's great for certain scripts and for drawing though.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    I am not sure why I never really got into Sailor pens, I like the look. I only have two Sailors. A Pro Gear Slim and a Lecoule. Oddly I like the Lecoule nib over the Pro Gear Slims Naginata nib. (I might have the nib wrong, I have to look it up, but it's one of the special nib grinds.)

    * Looked it up, Naginata Togi on my Pro Gear Slim.
    That is certainly understandable. The Naginata Togi nib is something that certainly requires practice to use successfully and is meant for more of an artistic function then general communication function. It's great for certain scripts and for drawing though.
    I've never tried it for that but I can understand why it would be better suited for those purposes. I wanted to have the nib reground but it does not seem right to do that to it.
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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    While this thread may be a relic, the data contained is still relevant. So thanks much for the assessment. I recently purchased the KOP Pro Gear Black/Rhodium and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. That is an interesting assessment of the KOP weight that the experience writing posted may be even more enjoyable (or at least balanced) than un-posted. I guess I'll find out in a month or less when my pen arrives. Also, that Custom 845 Vermillion initially caught my attention. Good thing I could not locate it easily... my interest in that pen has waned and your review provides additional reinforcement.

    The KOP Pro Gear Rhodium just sung to me. I can't explain it... picked it over a clear demonstrator and the ebonite version and I also picked this over a Pelikan M1000 even though I had a sweet price on the Pelikan, 30% discount to the KOP. But when it sings it sings, when it doesn't it doesn't.

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    Default Re: Comparing three Pilot and Sailor Flat Top pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tseg View Post
    While this thread may be a relic, the data contained is still relevant. So thanks much for the assessment. I recently purchased the KOP Pro Gear Black/Rhodium and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. That is an interesting assessment of the KOP weight that the experience writing posted may be even more enjoyable (or at least balanced) than un-posted. I guess I'll find out in a month or less when my pen arrives. Also, that Custom 845 Vermillion initially caught my attention. Good thing I could not locate it easily... my interest in that pen has waned and your review provides additional reinforcement.

    The KOP Pro Gear Rhodium just sung to me. I can't explain it... picked it over a clear demonstrator and the ebonite version and I also picked this over a Pelikan M1000 even though I had a sweet price on the Pelikan, 30% discount to the KOP. But when it sings it sings, when it doesn't it doesn't.
    Glad it helped. Keep us posted on how the KoP does for you.

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