Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 424

Thread: The Rise of the Political Christian

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default The Rise of the Political Christian

    Last week I was reminded of my own spiritual journey when Jimmy Carter was president and when Ronald Reagan was elected to replace Mr. Carter. I don't remember politics being discussed. I knew my family on both sides were Democrat, primarily because they remembered Hoover Days and the rise of social programs that got people back on their feet in many ways.

    As I said, Francis Schaffer was writing about civil disobedience and getting involved politically. Since that time, it seems to me that it has destroyed the American church.

    When I was coming up I endured and was made to study the Bible as a child. Later, I did it voluntarily with men and women the same age as my grand and great grandparents. They knew the scriptures and had interpretations. Some were cessationists. Some were pre trib and some post. The common thread is that they had come to know about Jesus and what he said and taught. It occurs to me that the modern person in the pew is not educated in what the texts say. They know they like Republicans. Actually, I'd say they are not a curious sort at all.

    Some think the worse thing that happened to Christianity is when it was adopted by Roman as the official religion.

    Thoughts?


    "But American church attendance was declining. The share of self-identified Christians in the United States dropped from 75 percent in 2011 to 63 percent in 2021 while the share of religious “nones” — i.e., those who identified as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” — jumped from 19 percent to 29 percent, according to the Pew Research Center. The G.O.P. has not been immune to this trend. The share of Republicans who belong to a church dropped from 75 percent in 2010 to 65 percent in 2020, according to Gallup. Although the sharp drop-off in religiosity began in the liberal mainline Protestant denominations, it has spread to their conservative counterparts as well. Fewer than half of Republicans said “being Christian” was an important part of being American in 2020, according to Pew — a 15 percentage point drop from 2016. Across the ideological and theological spectrum, organized religion is waning.

    As a result, the religious right’s influence in the G.O.P. has been declining since the Bush era. The party’s 2008 presidential nominee, John McCain, repeatedly flip-flopped on Roe, voted against a proposed constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman and decried Jerry Falwell as one of several “agents of intolerance.” Mitt Romney, who sat atop the G.O.P. presidential ticket in 2012, had a similarly spotty track record on social issues.

    While President Donald Trump delivered on a number of religious conservative priorities — most notably, appointing enough conservative justices to the Supreme Court to cobble together a likely majority of anti-Roe votes — he is a lifelong pro-choicer and sexual libertine who made explicit appeals to gay and lesbian voters on the 2016 campaign trail and was the first openly pro-same-sex-marriage candidate to win the presidency. “It is hardly surprising that the religious right is no longer even perceived as a relevant force in U.S. politics,” George Hawley concluded in The American Conservative. “Far from a kingmaker in the political arena, the Christian right is now mostly ignored.”

    Revolution From the Middle
    The decline in Republican church membership directly coincides with the rise of Mr. Trump. As Timothy P. Carney found in 2019, the voters who went for Mr. Trump in the 2016 primary were far more secular than the religious right: In the 2016 G.O.P. primaries, Mr. Trump won only about 32 percent of voters who went to church more than once a week. In contrast, he secured about half of those who went “a few times a year,” 55 percent of those who “seldom” attend and 62 percent of Republicans who never go to church. In other words, Mr. Carney wrote, “every step down in church attendance brought a step up in Trump support, and vice versa.”

    The right’s new culture war represents the worldview of people the sociologist Donald Warren called “Middle American radicals,” or M.A.Rs. This demographic, which makes up the heart of Mr. Trump’s electoral base, is composed primarily of non-college-educated middle- and lower-middle-class white people, and it is characterized by a populist hostility to elite pieties that often converges with the old social conservatism. But M.A.Rs do not share the same religious moral commitments as their devoutly Christian counterparts, both in their political views and in their lifestyles. As Ross Douthat noted, nonchurchgoing Trump voters are “less likely to be married and more likely to be divorced” than those who regularly attend religious services. No coincidence, then, that a 2021 Gallup poll showed 55 percent of Republicans now support gay marriage — up from just 28 percent in 2011."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/o...pgtype=Article
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; June 30th, 2022 at 11:27 AM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (June 30th, 2022)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    117
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 100 Times in 51 Posts
    Rep Power
    2

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post

    ...

    the modern person in the pew is not educated in what the texts say. They know they like Republicans.

    ...


    Thoughts?

    ...
    They all look alike. They should go back where they came from. (Imagine there being some kind of sarcasm smiley here.)

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Political identity is becoming America's new religious faith.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    2,132
    Thanks
    98
    Thanked 1,079 Times in 632 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    My faith is not usually inpired by ephemera.

    (Although I'm fascinated by butterflies.)

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Question, anyone beside me ever hear a preacher ask something like…” is there anyone here to loves Jesus”?

  7. #6
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    2,132
    Thanks
    98
    Thanked 1,079 Times in 632 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Question, anyone beside me ever hear a preacher ask something like…” is there anyone here to loves Jesus”?
    Do you ever read what you type before posting?

    You should.

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Question, anyone beside me ever hear a preacher ask something like…” is there anyone here to loves Jesus”?
    Do you ever read what you type before posting?

    You should.
    I often use my iPhone and posting on the go.

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Regarding what Justice Alito thinks.



    "“The challenge for those who want to protect religious liberty in the United States, Europe and other similar places,” Justice Alito said, “is to convince people who are not religious that religious liberty is worth special protection.”

    On one level, there is nothing surprising about such a declaration from Justice Alito. We know where he stands on religion. He is the author of a long string of opinions that have elevated the free exercise of religion above civil society’s other values, including the right not to be discriminated against and the right to enjoy benefits intended for all. He wrote a concurring opinion in June’s astonishing decision that permitted a high school football coach to commandeer the 50-yard line after games for his personal prayers over the public school district’s objection.

    He was a vigorous dissenter during the early months of the Covid-19 pandemic, when the court upheld the attendance limits that governments were placing on religious as well as secular gatherings. And later, when the court reversed itself on that issue after Justice Amy Coney Barrett’s arrival, he was part of the five-member majority that established a new “most favored nation” status for religion — meaning that any time the government, for whatever reason, grants a secular entity an exemption from a restriction or regulation, the failure to offer religion a similar exemption is presumptively unconstitutional."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/o...urt-alito.html

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    Lady Onogaro (November 28th, 2022), Lloyd (August 11th, 2022)

  11. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Gosh Chuck, you'd agree that the exercise of religion is guaranteed special protection wouldn't you?

  12. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    It’s been two months, dumb ass. I would agree that the government cannot establish a religion.

    You can say you love Jesus and pay someone to have sex with your wife.

    Thing is, all you Evangelicals are the ones shooting yourselves in the foot .

  13. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    It’s been two months, dumb ass. I would agree that the government cannot establish a religion.

    You can say you love Jesus and pay someone to have sex with your wife.

    Thing is, all you Evangelicals are the ones shooting yourselves in the foot .
    Just as I thought: you'd edit the part about "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" out of the First Amendment. You probably thought no one would check the text.

    The second sentence is an insight into your sad, perverted mind. Not a pretty sight.


  14. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    It’s been two months, dumb ass. I would agree that the government cannot establish a religion.

    You can say you love Jesus and pay someone to have sex with your wife.

    Thing is, all you Evangelicals are the ones shooting yourselves in the foot .
    Just as I thought: you'd edit the part about "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" out of the First Amendment. You probably thought no one would check the text.

    The second sentence is an insight into your sad, perverted mind. Not a pretty sight.

    No, it is well documented regarding Jerry Falwell,Jr, Kaz. This is old news.

    "Giancarlo Granda, the man at the center of a sex scandal involving Jerry Falwell Jr, detailed on Friday how the evangelical leader and outspoken ally of Donald Trump “enjoyed watching” his wife and Granda having sex."
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...joyed-watching

    Something more current and I'll use you favorite source, Fox to inform regarding the Southern Baptist's handling of sexual abuse.
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/justice-d...ex-abuse-cases

    I'll check back next month for your next drive by post.

  15. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    ^ ^ ^
    And this is what you try to pass off as Constitutional Analysis? This is your diversion from discussing the complete protection of religion in the First Amendment?
    Pull yourself out of the gutter, and set your mind on things above.

  16. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    This is your diversion from discussing the complete protection of religion in the First Amendment?
    Pull yourself out of the gutter, and set your mind on things above.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    How about if you pull your mind out of false overstatements about the "complete protection" of religion. You're not any more sincere (or righteous) than anyone else around here.

  17. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian


    TS-
    Thanks for pointing out my error: should have read "the complete language regarding the" protection of religion in the First Amendment.
    I'll leave the false overstatements to Chuck.
    How's retirement treating you?

  18. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Had I posted a false statement, you would have shown where I did. As it is, you choose to participate as you always have on this forum toward anyone who disagrees. It gets old, Kaz.

  19. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    You did.
    I did.
    Always there to point you the right way.
    Never gets old, as you never stop.

  20. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    You did.
    I did.
    Always there to point you the right way.
    Never gets old, as you never stop.
    I didn't until you prove it, Kaz. What get old is you refusing to respond with something of substance that back up your posts.

    The government cannot establish a religion or prevent you saying something without restraint of being censored. This does not mean bad players like Falwell and the Southern Baptist can get by with making poor decisions or that we cannot call them out for doing so. Watching your wife having sex with another man is not freedom of religion no matter how much you want it to be.

    I understand it galls you to be corrected, but if the "foo shits wear it".

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    Gabby84 (February 8th, 2023)

  22. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Can't think of a better place to post. From a David Brooks op-ed this AM.
    "Christians, he wrote in one novel, should get up every morning, read The Times and ask themselves, “Can I believe it all again today?” If you say Yes 10 days out of 10, he wrote, then you probably don’t know what believing means. But on the days you can say Yes, “it should be a Yes that’s choked with confession and tears and … great laughter.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/o...er-depths.html

  23. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 609 Times in 445 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: The Rise of the Political Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    You did.
    I did.
    Always there to point you the right way.
    Never gets old, as you never stop.
    I didn't until you prove it, Kaz. What get old is you refusing to respond with something of substance that back up your posts.

    The government cannot establish a religion or prevent you saying something without restraint of being censored. This does not mean bad players like Falwell and the Southern Baptist can get by with making poor decisions or that we cannot call them out for doing so. Watching your wife having sex with another man is not freedom of religion no matter how much you want it to be.

    I understand it galls you to be corrected, but if the "foo shits wear it".
    First, you take the position that Alito is wrong/out of line asserting that religious liberty is worthy of special protection.
    Second, when asked whether the exercise of religion is worthy of special protection, you slide sideways and acknowledge the government cannot establish a religion, avoiding the question, and ignoring the language of the First Amendment which addresses the question you were asked. In another attempt to deflect away from a constitutional discussion altogether you bring up pay-for-sex. Do your attempts at insulting people ever work?
    Third, your post 18 you go off on Falwell, Southern Baptists, and return to your fixation on pay-for-sex. So far as I know, you are the only person who would link freedom of religion, pay-for-sex, with Justices Alito and Barrett rulings on First Amendment religious liberty opinions.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •