Navigating The Waters Of Change: The Old And The New World of Pens, Online & Off

[manoeuver]

I'm better at blathering with my face, so here's this:

[Jon Szanto]

I'm better at blathering with my face, so here's this:

Today I learned Tim is into fringe...



Seriously, dude, thanks. Most xlnt comments, good ideas.

[stub]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

[gbryal]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

Why not?

[stub]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

Why not?

I guess you didn't watch the video?

[gbryal]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

Why not?

I guess you didn't watch the video?

I did, I guess I didn't draw the same conclusion.

[manoeuver]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

yes.

[stub]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

yes.

I find it hard to believe that one would travel to a show, pay parking, pay transport, meals, passes for the show, etc. just to buy a bone stock TWSBI and not do any other activities when they could get online cheaper and easier. Seems odd to me.

I suppose one could skip the local supermarket and go to Tsukiji Market to buy a can of tuna too.

Why do I care? I don't really.

People can do whatever they want.

[manoeuver]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

yes.

I find it hard to believe that one would travel to a show, pay parking, pay transport, meals, passes for the show, etc. just to buy a bone stock TWSBI and not do any other activities when they could get online cheaper and easier. Seems odd to me.

I suppose one could skip the local supermarket and go to Tsukiji Market to buy a can of tuna too.

Why do I care? I don't really.

People can do whatever they want.

they go because they found out there was such a thing as a pen show nearby, wanted to check it out, and didn't know anything else about it.
that was me at my first show, and I see these people at every show I attend.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Whoah....if I've been 'at this' for at least 20 years, does that make me Old Guard?

I've been at "this"* for 48 years. And i didn't even realize until about 4 years ago that there was a "community" of fountain pen afficionados, let alone pen shows and online stores...
* "this" meaning to passionately own , use and admire fountain pens and inks...

I meant merely that, having just learned JS is seven years into 'this,' and knows so much more than I do....

[stub]

they go because they found out there was such a thing as a pen show nearby, wanted to check it out, and didn't know anything else about it.
that was me at my first show, and I see these people at every show I attend.

okay. so

1. I wouldn't have ever guessed that but you say it and so it must be so.

2. "wanted to check it out" implies a little more than what you suggested in the video. If they are going to "check it out" than that is part of the experience they are paying for and they are really, not just going to buy a TWSBI.

I got not axe to grind here. I just watched the video and questioned that assertion. Because it strikes me then like something akin to "user error" or some kind of mismatch, where one is going to a place with entrirely bonkers expectations and then leaving unsatsified.

A pen show really isn't the best was to get a TWSBI if that truly is your only goal. Just as one can buy a six pack of Icehouse and get ripped at home, if one's goal is truly out just to be drunk, but if one goes to a bar they are there for a lot more than just the booze.

[Jon Szanto]

Do 'new' people really go to pens shows with 30 bucks looking for a TWSBI?

yes.

I find it hard to believe that one would travel to a show, pay parking, pay transport, meals, passes for the show, etc. just to buy a bone stock TWSBI and not do any other activities when they could get online cheaper and easier. Seems odd to me.

I suppose one could skip the local supermarket and go to Tsukiji Market to buy a can of tuna too.

Why do I care? I don't really.

People can do whatever they want.

they go because they found out there was such a thing as a pen show nearby, wanted to check it out, and didn't know anything else about it.
that was me at my first show, and I see these people at every show I attend.

Not only that, but you can confirm this by reading the people on reddit who go to their first pen show. Each and every low-cost item could have just as easily been purchased online, yet in this way it was wrapped up in the experience of going to a pen show, seeing all that stuff, and being among people who are similarly thrilled.

[Jon Szanto]

A pen show really isn't the best was to get a TWSBI if that truly is your only goal. Just as one can buy a six pack of Icehouse and get ripped at home, if one's goal is truly out just to be drunk, but if one goes to a bar they are there for a lot more than just the booze.

No one said it had to make sense. Two years on reddit has really opened my eyes to what... younger pen enthusiasts and n00bs will do. I am seldom let down in the "surely they wouldn't" category.

So, yeah, believe it.

[Jon Szanto]

I meant merely that, having just learned JS is seven years into 'this,' and knows so much more than I do....

Get out. I'm still a n00b as far as I'm concerned.

[stub]

yet in this way it was wrapped up in the experience of going to a pen show, seeing all that stuff, and being among people who are similarly thrilled.

okay, yeah I get that but again that is not what was said in the video (and why posting a video kind of makes it hard to respond, thus inhibiting the discussion)

He said showed up with $20-$30 to get a TWSBI. Nothing was mentioned at that point about going for the experience. (experience presumably came later)

and in this discussion the notion of experience was only add on subsequently by him and you. So I feel like I am aiming for a moving target here.

[stub]

No one said it had to make sense. Two years on reddit has really opened my eyes to what... younger pen enthusiasts and n00bs will do. I am seldom let down in the "surely they wouldn't" category.

So, yeah, believe it.

Yeah okay then. I would, for one, like to vote: FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY let us not let reddit dictate the direction of pen shows. </wink>


I guess what I am getting at (again) is that this is kind of a dumb thing to do. If you travel, buy a pass, park, eat, etc. and you only have $30 in your budget and doing all this to get a TWSBI I am not all sure why you would do that and then have a right to be down on pen shows? It seems a baffling assertion but it is a minor point and honestly typing in response to something said in a video that is not easy referred back to is shovelling poop against the tide.

I guess all I am saying is all this navel gazing about pens shows, could it be that folks are bummed because they are showing up a pen show for the absolue wrong reasons, wierd expectations or just not knowing what goes on in a pen show? It strikes like going to a strip club and complaining about all the nudity and drinking. Maybe the problem ain't with the pens shows but that folks are going expecting them to be something they are not and never were (stationary fairs or something).

If I buy a ticket to music hall to hear Harry Partch, then I better not bellyache that the music was all out of tune all night. heh.

[Jon Szanto]

Stub, I think there is a risk of getting far too deeply side-tracked on a somewhat offhand comment from Tim in his video response. It may not have been precisely and exactly that scenario. But I certainly can vouch for many reports - not just on reddit, mind you - of the post-show experiences of new users, and how very often their initial purchases seem like they could have come practically from any source.

Having said that, and going back to my own first show experience: I was in a complete daze. By the time I walked down just the very first aisle, the thousands of pens had started to blur into one large batch of rubber and plastic and metal. I remember that Mario Campa was the first vendor I struck up a conversation with, he looked at my hand, and said a vintage Aurora 88 would be a great pen purchase. Not exorbitant, but more than I had considered before, I passed, and it took me a couple of years to realize how right he was... and finally got one. The stories are endless, because each of us grows through that new period in a unique way.

You can't over or underestimate how a show will affect a new user, and by making the show experience less opaque, we open the door for even a beginner to maximize that experience. That is just one reason for my involvement in this discussion, and my interest in helping pen shows broaden their appeal to some small extent.

[manoeuver]

Stub, I think there is a risk of getting far too deeply side-tracked on a somewhat offhand comment from Tim in his video response.

this. thanks.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I meant merely that, having just learned JS is seven years into 'this,' and knows so much more than I do....

Get out. I'm still a n00b as far as I'm concerned.

My body of knowledge consists of 'ooo-shinyyyy-want.'

[sharmon202]

My experience of pen shows is limited, but I can say that the reason that I've gone to them has only partly been for the sake of seeing pens and inks and papers (quite a bit of which you can find online); I went to meet up with people and experience community, which I think I found at the Dallas Pen Show (the only one I've gone to so far). I have to say it was a delightful experience both times. I had found a place where I could "get my geek on." Honestly, I don't think I had had such a fun time in -- well, maybe ever! It was like nothing else. This last time, I hung out a lot with caribbean skye, who seems to know everybody, and sharmon, and we met up with people in the evenings who were newer to pens and some who really knew their pens. It seemed to me that most were users, though a few were also collectors. I didn't notice any snobbery from anyone, but that show is, I understand, small in comparison to some others. What impressed me was that people encouraged each other to try out their nibs and pens. Lots of knowledge was shared; I so enjoyed talking with everyone. So maybe it depends in part on the show you go to. Could it be that some shows are "friendlier" than others?

Looks like the only person whom you didn't bump into was... me

It's actually very easy to bump into me, I gave a tour to first-time pen-show attendees every *dang* hour last September, this year if I can't recruit a volunteer, I'll dial it down to every 2 hours. That will give me time to actually find some good vintage pens at the show.

I have been to 3 Dallas shows. I keep wondering how to get people together, that want to. I am a bit of an introvert so I would not just go around asking if you are Penwash until I found you. How can we coordinate so whoever wants to get together can find each other?. The more the merrier as far as I am concerned. A bit off topic, sorry.