What is up with FPN?

[Jimmy James]

Well for what it's worth, what I recall about Dr. I is that there was a nasty spat over the color of a Snorkel on the Sheaffer board and soon thereafter his very nice photos were replaced by some not very nice photos. I hope I don't get banned here for saying that (or at FPN!).

You'd have to say a lot worse than that to get banned here.

What if I called a Vermillion Snorkel Fiesta Red?

[thagbert]

Yesterday, I had a redirect to a NSFW page. But they said they weren't hacked! Semantics!


This thread reminds me of a black and white movie I saw featuring an angry mob with torches and pitch forks!

[Newton Pens]

I have been contributing primarily at FPN for several years now. I have always been curious about the whole David Isaacson thing, and have always been a bit disturbed by the fact that all references to what had happened had been purged, and that everyone was afraid to even mention it, at risk of being likewise purged. Rather Stalinesque, by any measure.

With regards to David, Jimmy mentioned above what happened. Making the site very family friendly has always been important, and when pictures of pens got replaced with pictures of soft-porn (from what I've been told by people who saw it) they got pretty upset. Which is understandable.

B) It is selling it's own branded merchandise, including:

i) pens

FPN has sold limited editions twice I think, to help raise money to pay for hosting costs, which are not cheap. The site gets something like 300,000 unique visitors a day. That sucks a lot of bandwidth.

ii) ink

FPN has been selling ink for years to help pay for hosting costs. This is not a recent thing.

iii) other merch, like pins, ball caps, coffee cups, etc.

Again - for years. The cafe press store was set up years ago. Only recently was a button linking to it placed in clear view. Nothing new.

C) It is now charging substantially for advertising rights.

A lot of forums charge for advertising and for access to their own sales forums/boards. What's the big deal here? I myself pay for advertising at a couple of places so I can bring attention to my pens and scholarship. If I make money advertising on somebody else's site, I'm glad to pay what is basically an insignificant amount of money to do so.

[AltecGreen]

With regards to David, Jimmy mentioned above what happened. Making the site very family friendly has always been important, and when pictures of pens got replaced with pictures of soft-porn (from what I've been told by people who saw it) they got pretty upset. Which is understandable.

I think some details are missing here in your explanation.

[Newton Pens]

Probably. You could enlighten us all if you want, though.

[david i]

Verily, I seem to have become a legend. Charming

I will recount the tale of my departure from FPN, including the story of the PG-13 rated cover shot from a tattoo art (newstand release, iirc) magazine that has since become the stuff of pendom mythology, and which made for the exit that FPN will never forget.

But, not really time tonight. I have company. We're watching modern Looney Tunes. Tomorrow evening I think. Break out your single malt and your Sosa #60 cigars. We will reconvene... cue the foreboding music...

In the meanwhile, those who seek serious chat among those who don't take *themselves* too seriously and who like old pens in particular, are welcome to drop by FPnuts/Fountain Pen Board. And, I will try to add my touch of vintage pen knowledge in my own Hack Amateur Newbie fashion (the story of "hack amateur newbie" also a tale for another day), here at FPG

regards

-david

[D Armstrong]

Oho! Now the pieces fall into place. You see, people on FPN are openly scared of even speaking the Isaacson name, for fear of being banned. Now, I agree that any porn-image swapping is dirty pool. But a Stalinesque culture is worse.

And commerce is good! I do it myself. But it is an increasing presence on FPN. If it was just there, like all the other forums, that would be fine. But it is in plain sight, while being trumpeted as being a negative influence. And while there is talk of covering hosting fees, there is never any evidence of the actual numbers. If each member bought just one $5 badge, once, how much money would someone have in a bank account? $200,000? That's not small change, for a very small transaction. If that is how much it takes to run the board, fine. But until I see the numbers, I reserve both judgement and the right to be cynical.

My Junius quote has been there since I created my account, and is something I honestly love. I didn't just trot it out for this occasion. Life is too short to live it in fear of bullies. Or to waste it on negative relationships. When I read JBB's post, my heart went out to her, because she didn't deserve what she has gotten.

My post is mostly just observations and logic. I don't like heavy-handed moderation tactics, and I say that as someone who has moderated forums for years, and dealt with my fair share of loonies in doing so. If people are scared, they won't stay. And if they smell something fishy, they won't stay. And if the site is down because of a mod war they won't stay. And if they are flashed by porn they won't stay (I was yesterday, at about 4 pm. And It was a link from within the temporary place-holder page, which calls into question the whole DNS-server thing, because that is a top-level re-direction. But I digress.)

Shawn, I know that you have invested a lot in FPN over the years, and I have always appreciated your postings and enthusiastic input. And I was glad to see you made a moderator because of your positive personality. I do hope that FPN can get itself together and be a happy place again. But you have to be realistic.

PS David I., you are a very bad boy!

[david i]

SNIP

PS David I., you are a very bad boy!

Isn't that from Abbot and Costello?

And btw. No porn was involved. I really and with no joke do promise that. Ahhh... the power of myth.

regards

-d

[david i]

Oho! Now the pieces fall into place. You see, people on FPN are openly scared of even speaking the Isaacson name, for fear of being banned. SNIP !

One might say that my name cannot be spoken (call me Snowball, if ya' know yer classic literature) there because I am the one fellow who treated FPN as FPN is used to treating its members. FPN continues to have a tough time absorbing that message. All the better.

-d

[AltecGreen]

Probably. You could enlighten us all if you want, though.

To first order, what is missing from your explanation is why.

When FPN banned David, he didn't have a problem with it. However, he did request that FPN take down all of the content that he provided. David (I'm so use to calling him the Dark Lord) had provided lots of informative content with both information and more importantly pictures. I personally didn't find his request outrageous. If you ban someone, I don't think you should be able to continue to reap the benefits of their content. The admins of FPN said no and David did what he did.

It would have been more honorable for the admins at FPN to just take down the content as requested. Wim certainly didn't have any problems deleting posts of several of the people who were banned including posts that had nothing to do with threads about the system changes.

[david i]

Probably. You could enlighten us all if you want, though.

To first order, what is missing from your explanation is why.

When FPN banned David, he didn't have a problem with it. However, he did request that FPN take down all of the content that he provided. David (I'm so use to calling him the Dark Lord) had provided lots of informative content with both information and more importantly pictures. I personally didn't find his request outrageous. If you ban someone, I don't think you should be able to continue to reap the benefits of their content. The admins of FPN said no and David did what he did.

It would have been more honorable for the admins at FPN to just take down the content as requested. Wim certainly didn't have any problems deleting posts of several of the people who were banned including posts that had nothing to do with threads about the system changes.

Geez, maybe I won't have to tell my tale; it will come out in dribs and drabs from pen friends 'n' such...

But, I will note, the final good-bye act was by me. I was officially an active member when I reclaimed my personal material from FPN. But, otherwise there is much that is correct in Altec's tale.

regards

david

[AltecGreen]

[QUOTE=david i;22161]

Probably. You could enlighten us all if you want, though.

Geez, maybe I won't have to tell my tale; it will come out in dribs and drabs from pen friends 'n' such...

But, I will note, the final good-bye act was by me. I was officially an active member when I reclaimed my personal material from FPN. But, otherwise there is much that is correct in Altec's tale.

regards

david

This is how legends grow.

Actually, it is good that the details of the story come out into the open. It's not like a secret since a lot of people know bits and pieces.


There is more to the story because as I remember there was a particular thread that was the breaking point.

[reprieve]

But let us be generous. We will not shoot them. We will not pour salt water into them, nor bury them in bedbugs, nor bridle them up into a "swan dive," nor keep them on sleepless "stand-up" for a week, nor kick them with jackboots, nor beat them with rubber truncheons, nor squeeze their skulls with iron rings, nor push them into a cell so that they lie atop one another like pieces of baggage--we will not do any of the things they did!

[HughC]

With regards to David, Jimmy mentioned above what happened. Making the site very family friendly has always been important, and when pictures of pens got replaced with pictures of soft-porn (from what I've been told by people who saw it) they got pretty upset. Which is understandable.

B) It is selling it's own branded merchandise, including:

i) pens

FPN has sold limited editions twice I think, to help raise money to pay for hosting costs, which are not cheap. The site gets something like 300,000 unique visitors a day. That sucks a lot of bandwidth.

ii) ink

FPN has been selling ink for years to help pay for hosting costs. This is not a recent thing.

iii) other merch, like pins, ball caps, coffee cups, etc.

Again - for years. The cafe press store was set up years ago. Only recently was a button linking to it placed in clear view. Nothing new.

C) It is now charging substantially for advertising rights.

A lot of forums charge for advertising and for access to their own sales forums/boards. What's the big deal here? I myself pay for advertising at a couple of places so I can bring attention to my pens and scholarship. If I make money advertising on somebody else's site, I'm glad to pay what is basically an insignificant amount of money to do so.

The incident with David was unfortunate, still the FPN ended up a lot poorer for it and it's never fully recovered (what I saw looked a lot better than most pens btw).

I, personally, have no issues with the owner/s either trying to cover costs or make a profit from a successful forum. If you read above what Wim has done to other people who did not deserve it then it's near impossible to defend the way FPN is run. As a mod over there I'm sure your aware of the disgraceful way the CS forum was run for many years, serious vintage CS collectors shun it and again Wim is the prime cause.

While FPN is a popular and well loved site , family friendly etc. that should not translate into a Kim Jong Um style of leadership yet that's exactly what Wim has created. As a mod I ,too, think you are one of those that does a very good job as do a number of others, that is at least a positive for FPN.

Do also note that my dear friend Wim is more than happy to front up here and talk about "his" board yet too gutless to address simple issues of common decency and respect to others, perhaps you would like to comment on the events that led up to at least 3 people being shown the door. I accept you may feel unable to comment.

A serious change of attitude at FPN is required to restore at least partial faith in the way it's run. Until that occurs there's little point in defending something that is now fundamentally flawed, even Wim won't do that.

Regards
Hugh

[david i]

With regards to David, Jimmy mentioned above what happened. Making the site very family friendly has always been important, and when pictures of pens got replaced with pictures of soft-porn (from what I've been told by people who saw it) they got pretty upset. Which is understandable.

How did Dr. McCoy say it so well...

" I see the Klingon's lips move, but no sound emerges..."

Go figure...

[david i]

I strongly suspect that $25K is a good less than the cost of running a forum like FPN. Software licensing could be more than that.

That said, If I wanted to sell off my collection in their classifieds, it would take a long time in their classifieds, so I got the impression they were trying to gaff a lot of members for the price of "premium" memberships.

IPB full package costs a couple-few hundred dollars... once. And full access to upgrades runs $25-50 twice a year. Software licensing does not cost much.

regards

david

[dannzeman]

[AltecGreen]

You need to try that with truffle salt. It's a Pen Posse favorite.

[tytoalba]

Curious as to whether any of the people who were temporarily suspended, actually saw the group designation "Away" = Banned upon their accounts?
Last week, as I was also urging the 20-under sales designation be considered, their accounts All read Gold = active accounts, but no posts = temporary suspended.
Obviously we can't check until FPN resumes. But it was the apparent overstatement of the situation, when still in gold status, during an unusually hectic massive change that caused me to take a neutral stand, though I intensely inquired, especially supportive in one situation. Maybe the more accurate claims ought to have been temporarily suspended, rather than banned without notice? I also saw the people involved visiting FPN, though they were not posting, which also suggested they were not actually banned, merely suspended for their private matters. I just hope this all resolves, positively, and soon. Best regards to All.

[79spitfire]

More drama than an afternoon soap...

Interesting about David I. I have browsed his sites and FPnuts several times, good stuff there!