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Thread: forum rules suggestions

  1. #21
    Senior Member penwash's Avatar
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with shift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

    Fred
    I agree, Fred.
    Personally, I welcome the perspective of a self-monitored small-ish community such as this one because I think we have a good combination of active members who don't always agree with one another <-- that would have been booooring, but are civil and reason-able enough that we do more than just tolerate each other.

    Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with shift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

    Fred
    I agree, Fred.
    Personally, I welcome the perspective of a self-monitored small-ish community such as this one because I think we have a good combination of active members who don't always agree with one another <-- that would have been booooring, but are civil and reason-able enough that we do more than just tolerate each other.

    Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us
    We’re disturbed, we’re disturbed,
    We’re the most disturbed,
    Like we’re psychologically disturbed.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    (--snip--)

    Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us
    Ha ha! I was thinking about that the other day as I finished up mandatory coursework on IRB approval for conducting social research with human subjects. If this is some sort of grand qualitative study, I'm certainly glad that I'm not the one transcribing and coding the data!
    Online arguments are a lot like the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
    As soon as the audience begins to participate, any actual content is lost in the resulting chaos and cacophony.
    At that point, all you can do is laugh and enjoy the descent into debasement.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us
    Yeah, not so funny really. Some years back I was a member of a woodworking forum the owner of which, unbeknownst to us, was doing exactly that. He simply pulled the plug once he'd finished with us as lab rats, not even allowing anyone else to step in to keep it running. A pretty lousy experience all round, to be honest.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

    Posting guidelines:


    1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
    2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
    3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
    4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
    5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
    6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
    7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
    8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    I did not start this thread with any interest in "enforcement", punishment, etc. I saw disagreement on even what the rules ought to be, so I thought that I would begin a thread to see if there is any consensus about a code of conduct here.

  11. #27
    Senior Member Dreck's Avatar
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

    Posting guidelines:


    1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
    2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
    3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
    4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
    5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
    6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
    7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
    8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.
    Would you care to expand on #4, please? I'd like to see your explanation with examples of what you think this should(n't) look like. What does it add that isn't covered by any of the other suggestions?
    Online arguments are a lot like the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
    As soon as the audience begins to participate, any actual content is lost in the resulting chaos and cacophony.
    At that point, all you can do is laugh and enjoy the descent into debasement.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Example of #4: any one of the many generalized aspersions toward FPN.

    I also occasionally read generalized aspersions here toward the Chinese manufacturers.

    But really I added it because it is a virtue broader than this forum, one that I struggle with too.

  13. #29
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Example of #4: any one of the many generalized aspersions toward FPN.

    I also occasionally read generalized aspersions here toward the Chinese manufacturers.

    But really I added it because it is a virtue broader than this forum, one that I struggle with too.
    But it's still okay to point out that lite beer is of Satan and a perversion of all that is good in the world. And that all of the definitions of what is a vintage pen other than my definition are just plain wrong.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with swift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

    Fred
    True, Fred, but this environment has also chased some thoughtful and kind people away simply because of the rude aggressiveness. Some posters have left in fear, even. Tolerating toxicity can also be a form of self-poisoning. I left Reddit because I just couldn't tolerate the level of toxicity. Here I use the ignore functionality. But I appreciate your position and words.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    The difficulty is that without an enforceable regime, rules are seldom 100% effective. There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty.

    However, I do commend your guidelines as a template for a forum society but question whether the threat of public humiliation as a deterrant, as suggested earlier, is acceptable at Law.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    The difficulty is that without an enforceable regime, rules are seldom 100% effective. There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty....
    But what do you think of the list of, now, eight guidelines? Agree, disagree, want to delete one, want to add something (other than punishment)?

  18. #33
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty.
    Baiting is a good point. It takes various forms, e.g. blithely tossing out a controversial statement as if it were accepted fact, referring to a past disagreement with an undiplomatic synopsis, suggesting that ones own opinions are exclusively rational (or ethical or moral or enlightened or whatever). Things of this nature may appear to be civil on the surface, but they incite. They ultimately disturb the peace. Now that I think about it, baiting is probably what bothers me most. But I'm not really into making rules for others to follow. When I read a list of rules like the one TSherbs has posted, I treat it as an introspective exercise. Do I follow these rules? If not, why not? Should I?
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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Baiting is a good point. It takes various forms, e.g. blithely tossing out a controversial statement as if it were accepted fact, referring to a past disagreement with an undiplomatic synopsis, suggesting that ones own opinions are exclusively rational (or ethical or moral or enlightened or whatever). Things of this nature may appear to be civil on the surface, but they incite. They ultimately disturb the peace.
    Yep, you've identified my one exception.

    Fred

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    While I'm generally of the opinion that less is more when it comes to forum moderation, what we have here is a near complete lack of forum management of any sort, which is not a good thing (see other threads in this group on difficulties I and others are having in re: two-factor authentication).

    Setting up guidelines by committee is a completely fruitless task, as ultimately there still needs to be that one voice that says 'ok, here is the consensus or as close as we're going to get' and pin it up.

    Without that, there will always be dissent, as with any large group of people, we bring our own sensibilities and experiences to the table which don't always mesh with what others bring. Common sense is rather uncommon after all, and what I may consider to be common courtesy others may not.

    With absent management, I firmly believe the only appropriate action is the aforementioned peer pressure.

    Using the original post in the For Sale forum as an example, it seemed pretty clear that a majority feel it's impolite to crap on someone's sale post (as do I), but there were also well-reasoned posts from those who don't agree. Can't fault the reasoning, I don't agree with it but I understand where they're coming from.

    Without any sort of moderating force, we can try to feign democracy but what we really have is libertarianism, ie. you do you, I do me. If enough people disagree with how you do you, then you either change how you do you, or where you do you... unless you're a troll who doesn't care, then back to square one we go... hey, Moderator! Moderator? Uhh...

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Wade, do you have any objections to the specifics in the eight guidelines listed above?

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post

    . When I read a list of rules like the one TSherbs has posted, I treat it as an introspective exercise. Do I follow these rules? If not, why not? Should I?
    Fair enough. I am interested in your thoughts on it.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    I want to be in charge of punishment!
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!

    My eBooks. Because why not.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Wade, do you have any objections to the specifics in the eight guidelines listed above?
    None at all, I'm in full alignment with you there, my earlier thoughts on creating rules absent management to set in place and enforce notwithstanding.

    Basically, we're looking at status quo, as long as these guidelines are no more than informal consensus amongst us inmates.

    We'll continue policing ourselves and voice our displeasure to those whose actions indicate that their sensibilities do not mesh with these guidelines, in hopes they will either self-adjust our self-relocate.

    Sorry, I think I'm coming across as more cynical than I'm likely intending. I've been around the block my share of times on various internet forums, seems we have a fairly tenuous balance of self-moderation, but it largely seems to work, and as this is one of my favourite places to visit, I may be getting a bit antsy about us messing it up despite good intentions.

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    Default Re: forum rules suggestions

    Cool, thanks

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