Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 73

Thread: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    hi proteus - yes, believe you are correct and this is the Mk. III - believe also that the Consort pattern was a U.K. design only and not made elsewhere.

    The cap carries the following imprints .................. commences with the halo - then ......u/c PARKER (for each of these letters, the left side down strokes are made with double lines) - 1/5 12 CT over R. GOLD - MADE IN ENGLAND.

    My knowledge regarding Parker f.ps. is obviously a lot less than yours, so often I lack details as to precise date lines and model changes for many of Parker f.ps., and this particular P61 Mk. III is an example which makes for some possible confusion as to its date of manufacture. Tony Fischier says that Consort was a pattern introduced in 1967, although he omits any reference as to when it was withdrawn and doesn't include an image of Consort within his P61 section. I'm assuming that Andreas Lambrou has his facts correct when he states this design was discontinued in 1969, but always possible it continued for longer than he believes.

    Discounting for a moment the fact that P61 Mk. III continued into the early 1980s - and keeping in mind this pen has the Consort designed cap, plus converter, but is nonetheless a Mk. III - then is it reasonable to assume, as I suggested earlier, this pen must date to no later than 1969 - 70 ........... what do you think?

    Unfortunately, I've not had the pleasure on knowing 'Bunny' - if I did I might have asked her to find me some good pens ............. and regret to say that I've forgotten now exactly where I read the comment about using parts on later Parker pens after a model had been withdrawn officially.
    I suspect it was somewhere in one of the three Parker books I have ........... the P51 - the Vacumatic - and the Duofold. I've no idea as to how widespread this practice was, and it may have applied to older f.ps. more than post 1960 models for all I know.

    P.S. Is it too late to speak to Bunny and ask for some cheap Consort Insignias or Presidents -

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Chartres, France
    Posts
    1,145
    Thanks
    2,658
    Thanked 846 Times in 452 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Wow! Twenty quid !!!! what a magnificent pen and what a lucky so-and-so!

    This is turning out to be a fascinating thread as I'm learning about both 'insides' and 'outsides' from people who clearly know their Parkers much better than I do. It's a bit like doing an art history degree with an option in anatomy and surgery :-)

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Some fast comments.

    Busy at the moment ( family stuff )

    Few people realise that most P61 Mk III Caps will fit most Mk I & II shells

    As for the Parker books written - sorry not a fan of any of the authors ( some facts are not up to date and just too basic for me )

    If anyone is interested :
    The best Parker internet site by miles is Lih-Tah Wong 's Parker 75.com ( even it is 3 - 5 years out of date )
    Parker 51.com too ( I have found their dating references just not precise enough for me )
    For very basic Parker reference parkerpens.net is outstanding

    As for the rest I will be polite and say do not bother.
    Last edited by proteus; June 3rd, 2017 at 02:09 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    we shall wait for the 'slow' comments then - no hurry.

    It might be argued that, as we know, this grid patterned cap seems to have been made only within the short window of 1967 to 1969 - although as you've also said, the Mk III barrel, section and converter might be from anywhere in the period 1969 - 82, so in theory this could be a combination of early and later dates, but I don't think so. I could be very wrong, but the manner in which I acquired this set doesn't suggest to me that someone had been swapping or interchanging later parts with an earlier cap.
    Those f.ps. that I find in my charity shop searches, are often the result of someone's demise or a move to accommodation for older people - the sort of event that causes folk to downsize, and pass some of their possessions to such shops, and I see this set as simply passed on in it's original state. Although I think such finds are now less frequent, I don't recall finding any sets or singles that had obvious signs where parts might not be as expected, date wise I'm thinking.
    So for the time being I'll stick with my suggestion of 1969 - 1970, unless you can convince me otherwise ............. 1969 being both the earliest date for the Mk. III (converter etc.) and probably the last date for the Consort cap. ........... but allowing some small extension in date.

    Regret I'm not knowledgeable enough to suggest whether my books are unreliable in some areas or not - but can say they make for very enjoyable reading, and think on balance I'd rather have them than not. Unfortunately, some are expensive.
    Last edited by PaulS; June 3rd, 2017 at 02:35 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hello PaulS,

    Many thanks for your patience.

    I have taken a little time over this because I wanted to make sure I was totally correct.

    The Parker Consort Cap was fitted to both P61 & 65 and were discontinued in 1972 so your pen is 100% correct.
    ( My previous comments were incorrect, I was 3 years out )

    I looked today at my research notes on P65 not a something I usually refer to. ( I only have two – always preferred P61’s )
    Have added a photograph of the summary header sheet.

    I have spoken to a real expert on P65 Mk III’s, he has confirmed the end date of 1972.

    You must be feeling a little smug, you have a rare 100% pen.
    I have never seen one in 24 years of collecting Parker pens.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by proteus; June 6th, 2017 at 12:13 PM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to proteus For This Useful Post:

    PaulS (June 7th, 2017)

  7. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hi proteus - sincere thanks for taking the time to investigate this so thoroughly for me - I'm in awe of such formidable expertise, but ................ your emphasis on the P65 model now has me confused. Are you saying that my pen is a 65 rather than a 61? - my apologies if I sound unsure - I had assumed mine couldn't be a 65 since it doesn't have the open nib, but does have the inlaid gold arrow of the 61. Sorry to seem rather dim.

    Wouldn't say that I feel smug necessarily - I get obsessive often, like so many collectors, and overspend and then endure some weeks having to claw back an escalating overdraft. With its unusual cap pattern, this is an attractive pen, although I have more black barrels on 61s than any other colour - I will bequeath this one to you in my will.

  8. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hello PaulS,

    Sorry for the confusion in posting my personal notes on the P65.

    The cap you have was fitted to both P61 & P65 upto 1972.

    As I have has said before your pen is 100% original.

    ' I will bequeath this one to you in my will '
    No, thanks I do not need any more P61's

    Did not post my research notes on the P61 because they are just too long and I do not have a summary header with dates.


    nb - what is odd but up until 2 years ago my main interest was P75 & P35
    A long while back I started collecting P80 Harlequins but got bored after having all of them including all the prototypes - Red Blue Green ( never got the gold version - a tricky German collector who would not part with it )
    Moved onto collecting rare demonstrators and teamed up a USA collector - got a VP a few 51 's
    Then decided I only wanted to collect pens that are offered to the public ( I never wanted to be a historical collector )
    ..........I appear to have rambled on too much.
    Will stop now.
    Last edited by proteus; June 7th, 2017 at 02:42 PM.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to proteus For This Useful Post:

    PaulS (June 7th, 2017)

  10. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hi proteus - so no doubt this is a P61 Mk. III, with Consort cap pattern, and from the period 1967 to 72. Thanks again for all your help, and no, I don't think you have rambled on too much - wouldn't our posts be boring if the personal content was omitted completely. Apologies also to the op for having diverted this thread.
    Only one pen from the charity shops today ........................ a Swan with a Conway Stewart No. 5 nib. Now I wonder if you know ..................

  11. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hello again PaulS,

    That must be some special charity shop you get pens from.

    As for your new pen, please remember my knowledge is very limited - most UK Newhaven / Meru / St Herblain Parker pens post 1950 to present day - I am not the oracle


    If you able to post photographs of it there is a possibility I know someone who will identify it and give an idea of value.
    Please remember condition & function are all.

    The photography must include the nib , feed and the top view of the pen cap including the clip.

    Not sure how this extended post will sit with the mods though - Not Parker stuff

    nb The most money I ever spent on a pen was a Parker 85 Florence Gold NOS Boxed.
    Why did I buy it ? Because I wanted one.
    Having got it and looked at it was it worth it ? Hell yes.
    Is it the rarest pen I have ? Not by miles. Just wanted one.
    Collecting rare things is very addictive.
    I know there are others here will understand this.
    Last edited by proteus; June 8th, 2017 at 02:56 PM.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to proteus For This Useful Post:

    amk (June 12th, 2017), PaulS (June 8th, 2017)

  13. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    hi proteus .......... must apologize as my comments about my 'new pen' were not intended to be taken seriously - had hoped my 'smileys' conveyed that - seems like Mrs. May, I too failed.
    I did find a black l.f. Swan (c. late 1940/early '50s possibly) with a C.S. nib - but would certainly not post here as not the right place at all - in fact doubt that I shall post anywhere as it's not a very exciting pen - and in view of the nib then probably what folk here would describe as a 'frankenpen'. Being a bit dim it took me some time to realize this was a name derived probably from Mary Shelley's 'all spare parts' monster. Isn't it fascinating to wonder at the past history of some older f.ps. ........... whose hands held this M.T. we'll never know - or where it lived and whether it was loved or not............ perhaps not, as it now has the wrong nib, although that is possibly the best part of the pen - it's a good firm medium/fine I'd guess. The section carries the word Swan, but the barrel lacks a model No., and the barrel threads are plastic and not metal, and the furniture is brassed - I'm a big fan of M.T., although not too well informed about them. This one cost £4.00.
    If your knowledge is limited, I'd hate to think what mine is - have a feeling you're being a tad too modest, and am sure you do know a lot more than you'd have us believe.

    I guard my charity shops with my life - it's taken a long time to cultivate a relationship with those ladies such that they now put pens to one side for me - and I've had some gems over the past few years. Hunting in the wild is so much more fun than being a cheque book collector, although sometimes it can't be avoided.

    I get the impression the P85s are rare - I don't have one yet - I envy you that Florence in gold. I don't write - have no friends - but wouldn't want to write with a nail anyway, and so many post 1950 Parkers are unexpressive when it comes to writing - give me a flexible nib any day, but like you I love to collect Parker f.ps. for their quality, beauty and rarity, and have a few good ones. I'd agree that collecting rare things is addictive - is it because you want something few other people have - possibly - but such passion is sometimes destructive on the bank account - but really do relate to what you're saying, and would hate to be without my passion for collecting, how dull life would be.

    Anyway, now I've rambled too much - so end of missive and good luck with the searching, and keep up the Latin abbreviations.

  14. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hi PaulS,

    Read your last reply with great pleasure.

    Really enjoyed reading your frank comments.

    It appears to be very rare on this forum.

    As this is my post I would like to say you have 'free run' always to say what you think here.

    Few would be so brave.

    Sorry to say I am a ' cheque book ' collector, never bought a pen in the wild.



    Need some time to adjust - very comfortable with level of communication.............it is why I joined this forum

    Will add more personal comments on pen collecting shortly.......
    Last edited by proteus; June 9th, 2017 at 04:53 PM.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to proteus For This Useful Post:

    PaulS (June 10th, 2017)

  16. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hello again PaulS,

    Thanks for your patience, I needed some time to reflect on your comments.

    I am very aware there are wild pen collectors like yourself.

    Your comments made me feel cheap, not feel like a real pen collector.

    It made me think what am I actually trying to do with my Parker pen collection.

    I am always collected Parker pens, a few years ago I got fed up with only receiving 0.5% on my savings. I decide to buy a lot of pens as an investment.

    If you buy wisely and only buy Perfect examples ( NOS ) they appreciate at possibly 10-15 % per annum ( only because they are rare and collectors always want them )

    What I very quickly realised was the top UK pen dealers knew a little less than me about identification. Their objective was, of course, only profit – that is the very big difference between a dealer and collector. I never say much when I look at a dealer’s pen, I usually wait for him to tell what it is. It is always interesting listening to them.
    ( Only ever bought one pen from a dealer in 24 years of collecting. )

    So most will think so where does he buy his pens ?

    Private collectors mostly.

    It is a very odd circle which few have access to, if you wish to dine at the top table.

    This may surprise some – the most knowledgeable collector of Newhaven Parker 51’s I have ever encountered lives in the Far East and always has.


    Nb – I once watched a UK ebay seller ( he was clearly a conduit ) sell 4 prototype rare Parker 61’s. I believe there are only 3 or 4 made of each. They came direct from the Newhaven archives. The shame was £1000 would have bought all 4. I resisted bidding, decided a while back I never wanted to be a historian of prototype pens. Beginning to think I should have save them, I could have easily. They were bought by a mixuture of dealers and private buyers.
    Last edited by proteus; June 10th, 2017 at 01:42 PM.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to proteus For This Useful Post:

    PaulS (June 10th, 2017)

  18. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,404
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,130 Times in 586 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    If 61s are of interest there was an article about them recently in either Pen World or the Pennant. I don't remember where I saw it.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Farmboy For This Useful Post:

    PaulS (June 10th, 2017)

  20. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    hi proteus - don't see any reason why you should feel cheap - we all collect in different ways, and what turns some people on does nothing for others, - at least you have made an investment of your collecting and fingers crossed values will increase with time. Think I've heard/seen in recent months that quality f.ps. have increased in value more so in recent times than for a few years - so you should have benefited from that - although whether your 10 - 15% can be sustained permanently is doubtful.
    Generally, my methods of collecting are slower which, depending on your point of view, may be good or lacking in prompt results - certainly if a substantial collection was wanted quickly then your route is by far the better. I enjoy my searching - I leave the car at home and walk to most of my destinations - with occasionally a necessary train home, and if I didn't drink as much beer as I do, then I'd be quite healthy.
    Must remember to enjoy our collecting though - once that principle is lost then perhaps we should stop.

    Agree about dealers lack of knowledge - and good idea to let them speak first, and some very good deals can be had by keeping mouth shut, but occasionally I have to visit an antiques fair to top up the passion and adrenalin.
    Think you're right sticking to one main brand - unfortunately I deviated some while back and now have Parkers, Sheaffers, M.T., C.S./Relief, Burnham, TdLR, Wyvern, Waterman, Mentmore and Platignum - oh, and some brand called Miscellaneous, but don't know who made them.

    Must be careful we don't treat this thread as our personal blog - perhaps we should stick to posts of specific pen issues otherwise we might get bad press. Been great chatting, and thanks again for sharing your expertise on the Parkers.
    Best wishes and good luck.

    thanks farmboy - will try to run the article down.

  21. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Some images of Don Doman's prototypes for the P61.

    If anyone is interested.

    As for the UK ebay seller - tracked him down with some help from others. ( spent alot of time on this this evening - just wanted an answer )
    The seller was not a conduit, sad to say he is someone who had access to Newhaven archives..........was also a pen author - how sad.
    Last edited by proteus; June 10th, 2017 at 03:41 PM.

  22. #36
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    488
    Thanks
    187
    Thanked 599 Times in 298 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Thank you for the informative discussion on these pens, most interesting.

  23. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hello again,

    Before I ramble on, I would like to thank Fermata for the kind comments.
    They are greatly appreciated.

    Have moved on abit on the pen stripdowns.

    Dealt with a fully clogged P61 & P51 both Mk I's using the same method as mentioned before - it really does work. ( just wanted to test my method - neither were from my collection - were given to me as two no hopers )

    If anyone is interested I can post some photography of totally stripped 1950 / 51 Aerometric nib & feed section

    Watched the Youtube P51 Aerometric stripdown again - it is easy if you have a prepared pen !


    nb -

    In the last few days bought another two P61's too

    A NOS UK P61 Insignia Pencil Boxed - never seen one before
    Also a P61 set - Early USA versions ( pre 1963 ) again Boxed. Never seen a ballpoint / pencil like this before.
    Was very lucky.

  24. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    Hi proteus - now I wonder who it was that said, recently - "No, thanks I do not need any more P61's" If you have the time, then yes, please do post some pix.

  25. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    242
    Thanked 251 Times in 143 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    For PaulS

    Collecting rare things is very addictive

    Perhaps one day I may have everything I ever wished for.

  26. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 67 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

    hi - yes, I couldn't agree more - what's the point of collecting something that every Tom, Dick and Harry has. If you do decided to add some pix of the P51 nib and feed section, you might consider starting a new thread - bearing in mind this one has a different subject heading. Just my opinion of course.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •