Any thoughts on new Jowo modern flex nibs?

[Kleinzeit]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had tried the new modern flex nib that edison and franklin-christoph are offering?

Thanks

[inklord]

I was wondering about that, too. They seem to be a semi-flex, like 1980's Pelikan nibs. I'm going to order a flex F-SIG from Franklin-Christoph next week though, so we'll see.

[kevmid]

Both Gourmet Pens and Pen Addict recently tried them. Looks like they are not flex nibs but softer nibs that bounce and give a bit of line variation but they do not really flex and give limited line variation. It seems with pressure the nib lifts off the feed rather than the tines splaying out and this can be seen in the Gourmet Pens video.

Pen Addicts conclusion was that one would get more flex from a Pilot FA nib so flex here is rather a misnomer, it is closer to a soft nib. Still an interesting nib with more line variation than a standard Jowo, but not a flex.

[MediaVita]

I have one. As they state in their website (at least they're honest) these are not vintage flex at all. They're modern flex, and that means soft. This is a really soft nib, the tines don't open when you push so the line variation is not that noticeable.

Taking that into account, I got this nib because I love how soft it is, and how with a small pressure you can get a subtle variation in your writing. But I use it for daily writing. The SIG option is in my opinion great. It adds a stubbish feature to the writing which gives a lot of possibilities.

If you're looking for a flex nib, really flex nib, I don't recommend it. It's a bit more flexible than my soft nib from Pilot.




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[MediaVita]

A fast review. Sorry for the poor quality of my flex, I'm not into it.


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[penwash]

It seems with pressure the nib lifts off the feed rather than the tines splaying out and this can be seen in the Gourmet Pens video.

That's a sign of poor fit between the nib and feed and section, or a *very* stiff nib.

[penwash]

A fast review. Sorry for the poor quality of my flex, I'm not into it.


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I like your review and your photos. The nib, however, does not impress me at all.

[inklord]

A fast review. Sorry for the poor quality of my flex, I'm not into it.


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I like your review and your photos. The nib, however, does not impress me at all.

Strangely enough, I get more line variation from my regular FSIG due to its cursive italic grind... though that might be user specific (I write with a very light hand).

[Kleinzeit]

Thanks very much for the responses! That looks like a lovely Franklin-Christoph. I have one of the modern flex nibs now, and use it with my Model 19. I don't know much about flex, so I am no expert, but it is bouncy and gives some variation. It is nice springy writing experience and one which gets best of both worlds: flex and variation in feel of nib with still being a daily writer. I might feel that I would be under-using a proper flex nib, or not getting all that it can do as I am also not really good at flex.

[penwash]

Thanks very much for the responses! That looks like a lovely Franklin-Christoph. I have one of the modern flex nibs now, and use it with my Model 19. I don't know much about flex, so I am no expert, but it is bouncy and gives some variation. It is nice springy writing experience and one which gets best of both worlds: flex and variation in feel of nib with still being a daily writer. I might feel that I would be under-using a proper flex nib, or not getting all that it can do as I am also not really good at flex.

Not to detract from what this thread is for, but I would suggest for you to try a good vintage flex (there are good ones and not so good ones out there).

No one is "good at flex" unless you are raised in a culture or education system that trained you in cursive handwriting at the early age. I certainly wasn't.
I didn't know anything about flex until about 2 years ago, but now I'm very motivated to practice and learn because I enjoy writing with flex nibs so much.

[SIR]

It seems with pressure the nib lifts off the feed rather than the tines splaying out and this can be seen in the Gourmet Pens video.

That's a sign of poor fit between the nib and feed and section, or a *very* stiff nib.

Perhaps sometimes, though I have used at least one Nakaya and one Platinum (I know, same company...) 'soft' nib which did this.

[Eciton]

I get noticeably more flex even from my normal Fine-Medium Pilot nibs in the 91 and 92. The Elabo/Falcon and #10 FA nibs are much, much more flexy. And the Bock Ti nibs are more flexy too. Given all the fanfare at launch I'm a bit surprised at how little these Jowos flex...

[inklord]

OK, now I just have to vent it. And I'm not shy to derail this thread. Apart from the obvious misnomer "flex" for the new JoWo nibs (soft would perhaps be a better description, I think that these are ok nibs for the average user preferring a bit of a bouncy feeling when writing, one that I enjoy myself when writing with some Pilot pens - not with the falcon, which is more springy than just soft - gosh I dislike that nib...)

My rant is going about the weird notion that seems to seep into many nib conversations that somehow flex nibs are more desirable than firm nibs, whereupon some long-time FP fans feel it necessary to ad "but you should really try a real vintage flex nib": as if there were an unconditional endorsement of all things soft and wet-noodely written into the laws of nibbology.
Baloney!
A flex nib is a unique nib that can, in skilled hands, allow for great enhancement of one's handwriting. But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles, and while these styles are - in my opinion - more demanding of calligraphic skills than others, they are for the average user no more desirable to practice than any other style of writing. It has been mentioned before on this forum that the firmness of a nib is often denigrated as "its a real nail" - have you ever heard anybody say "it's disgustingly wobbly" about a soft nib? Yet, if one practices a writing style that calls for a firm nib, or a soft nib that varies its ink flow with varied pressure, but not its line width, any real wet noodle is unnecessary at best, a real nuisance at worst. So let's all jump off the soft and flexy bandwagon for a bit, especially when consulting newbies; flex is not a holy grail, just one of many options!
And: I was raised in a culture that demanded cursive writing with a fountain pen, but none of my cursive writing in 13 years of schooling prepared me for Spencerian Script; we did utilize cursive/italic nibs for line variation, but that was, alas for non-cursive medieval lettering. The nibs were stiff as (flattened) nails. And in college I adopted print with occasional linkages, because that looked so exotically American!

[Lloyd]

Not all FP users strive for better, or even legible, handwriting. Some like flexy nibs for the pleasure they can provide with their very unique ride... a feeling unattainable from any other writing apparatus.

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[penwash]

OK, now I just have to vent it. And I'm not shy to derail this thread. Apart from the obvious misnomer "flex" for the new JoWo nibs (soft would perhaps be a better description, I think that these are ok nibs for the average user preferring a bit of a bouncy feeling when writing, one that I enjoy myself when writing with some Pilot pens - not with the falcon, which is more springy than just soft - gosh I dislike that nib...)

My rant is going about the weird notion that seems to seep into many nib conversations that somehow flex nibs are more desirable than firm nibs, whereupon some long-time FP fans feel it necessary to ad "but you should really try a real vintage flex nib": as if there were an unconditional endorsement of all things soft and wet-noodely written into the laws of nibbology.
Baloney!
A flex nib is a unique nib that can, in skilled hands, allow for great enhancement of one's handwriting. But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles, and while these styles are - in my opinion - more demanding of calligraphic skills than others, they are for the average user no more desirable to practice than any other style of writing. It has been mentioned before on this forum that the firmness of a nib is often denigrated as "its a real nail" - have you ever heard anybody say "it's disgustingly wobbly" about a soft nib? Yet, if one practices a writing style that calls for a firm nib, or a soft nib that varies its ink flow with varied pressure, but not its line width, any real wet noodle is unnecessary at best, a real nuisance at worst. So let's all jump off the soft and flexy bandwagon for a bit, especially when consulting newbies; flex is not a holy grail, just one of many options!
And: I was raised in a culture that demanded cursive writing with a fountain pen, but none of my cursive writing in 13 years of schooling prepared me for Spencerian Script; we did utilize cursive/italic nibs for line variation, but that was, alas for non-cursive medieval lettering. The nibs were stiff as (flattened) nails. And in college I adopted print with occasional linkages, because that looked so exotically American!

That bolded statement up there, is referring to my post, right?

So sorry, I didn't mean to make you frustrated. Here, let me make it right: To whom it may concern, don't try a real vintage flex nib. Instead, if you do come across one, contact me and I'll take it. Let me save you from the potential of discovering that you actually enjoy writing with one.

Just joking, I like vintage nail nibs also. Especially Sheaffer nibs, yes, everyone should try that also!

[inklord]

OK, now I just have to vent it. And I'm not shy to derail this thread. Apart from the obvious misnomer "flex" for the new JoWo nibs (soft would perhaps be a better description, I think that these are ok nibs for the average user preferring a bit of a bouncy feeling when writing, one that I enjoy myself when writing with some Pilot pens - not with the falcon, which is more springy than just soft - gosh I dislike that nib...)

My rant is going about the weird notion that seems to seep into many nib conversations that somehow flex nibs are more desirable than firm nibs, whereupon some long-time FP fans feel it necessary to ad "but you should really try a real vintage flex nib": as if there were an unconditional endorsement of all things soft and wet-noodely written into the laws of nibbology.
Baloney!
A flex nib is a unique nib that can, in skilled hands, allow for great enhancement of one's handwriting. But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles, and while these styles are - in my opinion - more demanding of calligraphic skills than others, they are for the average user no more desirable to practice than any other style of writing. It has been mentioned before on this forum that the firmness of a nib is often denigrated as "its a real nail" - have you ever heard anybody say "it's disgustingly wobbly" about a soft nib? Yet, if one practices a writing style that calls for a firm nib, or a soft nib that varies its ink flow with varied pressure, but not its line width, any real wet noodle is unnecessary at best, a real nuisance at worst. So let's all jump off the soft and flexy bandwagon for a bit, especially when consulting newbies; flex is not a holy grail, just one of many options!
And: I was raised in a culture that demanded cursive writing with a fountain pen, but none of my cursive writing in 13 years of schooling prepared me for Spencerian Script; we did utilize cursive/italic nibs for line variation, but that was, alas for non-cursive medieval lettering. The nibs were stiff as (flattened) nails. And in college I adopted print with occasional linkages, because that looked so exotically American!

That bolded statement up there, is referring to my post, right?

So sorry, I didn't mean to make you frustrated. Here, let me make it right: To whom it may concern, don't try a real vintage flex nib. Instead, if you do come across one, contact me and I'll take it. Let me save you from the potential of discovering that you actually enjoy writing with one.

Just joking, I like vintage nail nibs also. Especially Sheaffer nibs, yes, everyone should try that also!

:P ... I wasn't directly referring to your post, but I guess you were included. Also: I'm a writer, (not author, just writer) and not a calligrapher. So that's my angle. Thanks for taking it with the humor your reply indicated - I surely didn't mean to offend anybody! All you wet noodle fans are a serious enrichment to the fandom!

[Pterodactylus]

OK, now I just have to vent it. And I'm not shy to derail this thread. Apart from the obvious misnomer "flex" for the new JoWo nibs (soft would perhaps be a better description, I think that these are ok nibs for the average user preferring a bit of a bouncy feeling when writing, one that I enjoy myself when writing with some Pilot pens - not with the falcon, which is more springy than just soft - gosh I dislike that nib...)

My rant is going about the weird notion that seems to seep into many nib conversations that somehow flex nibs are more desirable than firm nibs, whereupon some long-time FP fans feel it necessary to ad "but you should really try a real vintage flex nib": as if there were an unconditional endorsement of all things soft and wet-noodely written into the laws of nibbology.
Baloney!
A flex nib is a unique nib that can, in skilled hands, allow for great enhancement of one's handwriting. But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles, and while these styles are - in my opinion - more demanding of calligraphic skills than others, they are for the average user no more desirable to practice than any other style of writing. It has been mentioned before on this forum that the firmness of a nib is often denigrated as "its a real nail" - have you ever heard anybody say "it's disgustingly wobbly" about a soft nib? Yet, if one practices a writing style that calls for a firm nib, or a soft nib that varies its ink flow with varied pressure, but not its line width, any real wet noodle is unnecessary at best, a real nuisance at worst. So let's all jump off the soft and flexy bandwagon for a bit, especially when consulting newbies; flex is not a holy grail, just one of many options!
And: I was raised in a culture that demanded cursive writing with a fountain pen, but none of my cursive writing in 13 years of schooling prepared me for Spencerian Script; we did utilize cursive/italic nibs for line variation, but that was, alas for non-cursive medieval lettering. The nibs were stiff as (flattened) nails. And in college I adopted print with occasional linkages, because that looked so exotically American!

Please name which writing styles you mean with.
"But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles"

Because I feel not limited using a flex nib compared to a firm one.
Of course you would choose for writing italic, gothic,.... an italic nib but Ìm sure you didn't meant this (because also a firm spherical nib is not suitable for such styles).

I can think only about one case: Yes firm nibs might be superior for ham fisted ballpoint barbarians, because they can't be destroyed easy by them.

I also would not sign that vintage flex nibs are always superior to modern flex nibs. (Ok most modern "flex" (stock) nibs are not really flex nibs).

I'd like to add a side by side comparison I did some time ago (still on FPN for the EMF thread) between an awesome vintage flex nib (one of my best) and a EMF modified FPR flex nib.


Show_response_845 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Waterman BCHR 12 1/2 ..... Diamine Ancient Copper)
(Serwex MB flex EMF ..... ESS Registrars Blue-Black)

You're right flex is no holy grail, but it's a lot of fun.
I can see no disadvantages using flex nibs (if you can handle them)

[inklord]

OK, now I just have to vent it. And I'm not shy to derail this thread. Apart from the obvious misnomer "flex" for the new JoWo nibs (soft would perhaps be a better description, I think that these are ok nibs for the average user preferring a bit of a bouncy feeling when writing, one that I enjoy myself when writing with some Pilot pens - not with the falcon, which is more springy than just soft - gosh I dislike that nib...)

My rant is going about the weird notion that seems to seep into many nib conversations that somehow flex nibs are more desirable than firm nibs, whereupon some long-time FP fans feel it necessary to ad "but you should really try a real vintage flex nib": as if there were an unconditional endorsement of all things soft and wet-noodely written into the laws of nibbology.
Baloney!
A flex nib is a unique nib that can, in skilled hands, allow for great enhancement of one's handwriting. But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles, and while these styles are - in my opinion - more demanding of calligraphic skills than others, they are for the average user no more desirable to practice than any other style of writing. It has been mentioned before on this forum that the firmness of a nib is often denigrated as "its a real nail" - have you ever heard anybody say "it's disgustingly wobbly" about a soft nib? Yet, if one practices a writing style that calls for a firm nib, or a soft nib that varies its ink flow with varied pressure, but not its line width, any real wet noodle is unnecessary at best, a real nuisance at worst. So let's all jump off the soft and flexy bandwagon for a bit, especially when consulting newbies; flex is not a holy grail, just one of many options!
And: I was raised in a culture that demanded cursive writing with a fountain pen, but none of my cursive writing in 13 years of schooling prepared me for Spencerian Script; we did utilize cursive/italic nibs for line variation, but that was, alas for non-cursive medieval lettering. The nibs were stiff as (flattened) nails. And in college I adopted print with occasional linkages, because that looked so exotically American!

Please name which writing styles you mean with.
"But it lends itself to a limited segment of writing styles"

Because I feel not limited using a flex nib compared to a firm one.
Of course you would choose for writing italic, gothic,.... an italic nib but Ìm sure you didn't meant this (because also a firm spherical nib is not suitable for such styles).

I can think only about one case: Yes firm nibs might be superior for ham fisted ballpoint barbarians, because they can't be destroyed easy by them.

I also would not sign that vintage flex nibs are always superior to modern flex nibs. (Ok most modern "flex" (stock) nibs are not really flex nibs).

I'd like to add a side by side comparison I did some time ago (still on FPN for the EMF thread) between an awesome vintage flex nib (one of my best) and a EMF modified FPR flex nib.


Show_response_845 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Waterman BCHR 12 1/2 ..... Diamine Ancient Copper)
(Serwex MB flex EMF ..... ESS Registrars Blue-Black)

You're right flex is no holy grail, but it's a lot of fun.
I can see no disadvantages using flex nibs (if you can handle them)

Agreed on most everything you wrote. Fine lettering, technical lettering, any writing that calls for great uniformity of the lines are examples where a firm nib is easier to handle for many, if not most users, but also some forms of expressive lettering with rapid, energetic strokes without flex and anything where a good deal of ink flow variation but no line width variation is desired are examples where I just go with a firm nib rather than a flex nib, whereas moderately soft nibs are ok for most of those applications.
Beautiful writing, btw. - thanks for showing! I was not concluding anything about the comparative quality of vintage and modern "modified" flex nibs, but merely mentioned that vintage flex nibs are often (in my personal experience) unconditionally recommended, and as a person who is not a calligrapher but just someone who writes a lot, and basically for almost 50 years exclusively with fountain pens, I think there is a place for firm nibs. And let's not be derogatory about people who have not been fortunate enough to have received a good writing education and/or introduction to fine writing instruments. Not to mention southpaws like my wife, for whom anything truly soft is basically useless.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Flex isn't a holy grail for me but rather just something desirable. Considering my remoteness from good markets/friends/contacts, I would settle for a single example that writes hairlines to BB with a high degree of easy softness and quick response. Unfortunately I have yet to see such nib - beginning to wonder if they really exist.

For writing I employ a number of different styles - all without any particular skill of course - that includes cursive, printing, various attempts at calligraphy, italics and so on. Having the right tool for the job helps a lot.

It is true that many laud vintage nibs in regard to flexibility, and I don't think the modern versions have quite the same characteristics. The Pilot FA is very soft indeed but suffers from having a slower snap back and less sharpness in the unstressed line.

[TSherbs]

I'm a proud and out-of-the-closet ham-fisted barbarian. I have no use for flex and disregard praise for it. But I don't begrudge the praise. I tried flex once. For me, not worth the time and effort and lack of reward. Some others use it well.