Delta - in trouble?

[jar]

I am sorry, but I am a stickler for corporate ethics, and that puts all of the remaining Italian makers with the possible exception of Aurora in the same dark corner where Montblanc and, alas, also Pelikan dwell. It is indeed sad to see these venerable makers go, and even sadder to see the workplaces disappear, but they have been dead to me for a while...

LOL

Sorry but "Corporate ethics" (whatever that is) does not extend to advertising copy. ....

Why not? There are all sorts of harmful deceits that could be perpetrated on consumers were it not for some ethical standards either being self-imposed or imposed by law.

Because it is advertising and adults are supposedly capable of understanding that they are advertising.

[RocketRyan]

I am sorry, but I am a stickler for corporate ethics, and that puts all of the remaining Italian makers with the possible exception of Aurora in the same dark corner where Montblanc and, alas, also Pelikan dwell. It is indeed sad to see these venerable makers go, and even sadder to see the workplaces disappear, but they have been dead to me for a while...

LOL

Sorry but "Corporate ethics" (whatever that is) does not extend to advertising copy. ....

Why not? There are all sorts of harmful deceits that could be perpetrated on consumers were it not for some ethical standards either being self-imposed or imposed by law.

Because it is advertising and adults are supposedly capable of understanding that they are advertising.

I think they over estimate most adults.

[Ahriman4891]

There are plenty of "the truly gullible and willfully ignorant", otherwise homeopathy, kilobuck audiophile power cords, and fusion nibs would not exist. I'm very new to the hobby, but the fusion nib BS raised a red flag and I wrote Delta off right away.

[Jon Szanto]

The human species is not the sharpest pencil in the (universal) box.

[Deb]

You mean the earth's NOT flat and motionless? That explains the dizzy spells and why I spill my drink so often.

[grainweevil]

Y'know the joke's going to be on you when you realise you're actually just a brain in a jar being propelled through the Cosmos in a canoe. Spinning sphere? Ridiculous.

I'm very new to the hobby, but the fusion nib BS raised a red flag and I wrote Delta off right away.

Which is sad, but understandable. They're actually rather nice steel nibs and simply didn't need the topping of manure.

One or two very questionable business decisions made by Delta in recent years, and an on-going problem with poor translations doesn't/didn't help them, I suspect. A brief Delta acquisition phase hit me a little while back, as heavily discounted models threw themselves at me from all directions at once, and they make/made some fine pens. Be nice to think they could survive and turn things around, but back in the real world (here in the canoe) I fear bad things for them.

[inklord]

I am sorry, but I am a stickler for corporate ethics, and that puts all of the remaining Italian makers with the possible exception of Aurora in the same dark corner where Montblanc and, alas, also Pelikan dwell. It is indeed sad to see these venerable makers go, and even sadder to see the workplaces disappear, but they have been dead to me for a while...

LOL

Sorry but "Corporate ethics" (whatever that is) does not extend to advertising copy. ....

Why not? There are all sorts of harmful deceits that could be perpetrated on consumers were it not for some ethical standards either being self-imposed or imposed by law.

Because it is advertising and adults are supposedly capable of understanding that they are advertising.

I think they over estimate most adults.

This is not about people simply being too gullible. But if you lie to me in order to deceive me, and I fall for it because my previous experience has not prepared me to see through your deception, then something is wrong with you, not me... OK? And, even in advertisements, there is a difference with abit of hyperbolic overstating and stating wrong or fabricated "facts".

[TSherbs]

After the blatant lies Delta spread about their fusion nib, I'm actually almost glad to see them go...

Although I am not sure that corporate death was the fitting punishment, that lie about the nib was naked and insincere. Yes, advertisements are to be taken with a grain of salt, but many of us have some limits to the degree and tone of which and in which we accept being lied to and still hand over our hard-earned cash. I don't expect "friends" in corporate agents, but I don't expect to be insulted and treated with elaborate deceit either. My money will go elsewhere.

[TSherbs]

Why not? There are all sorts of harmful deceits that could be perpetrated on consumers were it not for some ethical standards either being self-imposed or imposed by law.

Because it is advertising and adults are supposedly capable of understanding that they are advertising.

That the lie is capable of being detected does not remove the liar's culpability. My trying to punch the lights out of a professional boxer (versus a much weaker potential target) does not exempt me from the charge of assault. That millions of adults believed that smoking was not harmful to them (advertizing always stated the opposite, and the negative research was suppressed) did not exempt the tobacco companies from both ethical and legal responsibility (partial) for the deceit.

[AltecGreen]

I'm not happy to see any company gone, it does no matter from which country..... In particular in a small world like that one of fp.
If only companies like Mont Blanc or Pelikan or Parker will be left in the market, our fun will be much less.
I started to buy Omas 30 years ago when i was living in Bologna for the University, and still I consider my Omas among the best pens i own in my collection . And the first one is my extra lucens from 1936.

A vintage Extra Lucens is a very different pen than any modern Omas. The pens made while Simoni was alive are fantastic with some of the best nibs. The modern pens try to capture the look but lack the soul or the performance.

[jar]

Why not? There are all sorts of harmful deceits that could be perpetrated on consumers were it not for some ethical standards either being self-imposed or imposed by law.

Because it is advertising and adults are supposedly capable of understanding that they are advertising.

That the lie is capable of being detected does not remove the liar's culpability. My trying to punch the lights out of a professional boxer (versus a much weaker potential target) does not exempt me from the charge of assault. That millions of adults believed that smoking was not harmful to them (advertizing always stated the opposite, and the negative research was suppressed) did not exempt the tobacco companies from both ethical and legal responsibility (partial) for the deceit.

But that is a matter of legality, not morality.

The two are not synonymous.

[TSherbs]

That the lie is capable of being detected does not remove the liar's culpability. My trying to punch the lights out of a professional boxer (versus a much weaker potential target) does not exempt me from the charge of assault. That millions of adults believed that smoking was not harmful to them (advertizing always stated the opposite, and the negative research was suppressed) did not exempt the tobacco companies from both ethical and legal responsibility (partial) for the deceit.

But that is a matter of legality, not morality.

The two are not synonymous.

It is a matter of both. The ethic is clear: intentional deceit (fraud) is both an ethical and a legal wrong. This is compounded when the deceit has damaging effects.

And of course ethics and law are not synonymous. But nearly all law is grounded in basic ethics of respectful and non-damaging treatment of other humans on the planet (and their property).

[jar]

That the lie is capable of being detected does not remove the liar's culpability. My trying to punch the lights out of a professional boxer (versus a much weaker potential target) does not exempt me from the charge of assault. That millions of adults believed that smoking was not harmful to them (advertizing always stated the opposite, and the negative research was suppressed) did not exempt the tobacco companies from both ethical and legal responsibility (partial) for the deceit.

But that is a matter of legality, not morality.

The two are not synonymous.

It is a matter of both. The ethic is clear: intentional deceit (fraud) is both an ethical and a legal wrong. This is compounded when the deceit has damaging effects.

And of course ethics and law are not synonymous. But nearly all law is grounded in basic ethics of respectful and non-damaging treatment of other humans on the planet (and their property).

Yet in this case I still see no ethical problem. And trying to compare it to cigarette advertising was simply sophomoric. The "Fusion Nib" was not a threat to anyone's health nor even a major financial risk. It was just selling the sizzle instead of the steak.

[TSherbs]

That the lie is capable of being detected does not remove the liar's culpability. My trying to punch the lights out of a professional boxer (versus a much weaker potential target) does not exempt me from the charge of assault. That millions of adults believed that smoking was not harmful to them (advertizing always stated the opposite, and the negative research was suppressed) did not exempt the tobacco companies from both ethical and legal responsibility (partial) for the deceit.

But that is a matter of legality, not morality.

The two are not synonymous.

It is a matter of both. The ethic is clear: intentional deceit (fraud) is both an ethical and a legal wrong. This is compounded when the deceit has damaging effects.

And of course ethics and law are not synonymous. But nearly all law is grounded in basic ethics of respectful and non-damaging treatment of other humans on the planet (and their property).

Yet in this case I still see no ethical problem....... The "Fusion Nib" was not a threat to anyone's health nor even a major financial risk. It was just selling the sizzle instead of the steak.

I have deleted your aspersion. If you are going to become derogatory, then I will assume that you don't actually want to discuss the possibility of ethics in marketing.

The analogy I was making was like the old form of analogy comparisons on the SAT:

apples:fruit.... is like ..... baseball:sport

The comparison is not between apples and baseball (which you accused me of making between fountain pen nibs and cigarettes). The comparison is between the relationships of the items in each pair.

Actually, the Delta's nib's "sizzle" (well functioning nib) was delivered as promised. It just did not taste good because it was over special briquettes. In fact, the special briquettes which you paid extra for imparted no flavor at all to the meat and were just a method of false advertising meant to extract more money from one's pocket to another.

What one person sees as marketing savvy (As long as no crime is committed, anything goes...), another sees as the hucksterism of a snake oil salesman. "Buyer beware" is not the only ethic recognized in the marketplace by all the members of the marketplace. It is simply the last line of defense under the consumer's control.

[Jon Szanto]

I have deleted your aspersion. If you are going to become derogatory, then I will assume that you don't actually want to discuss the possibility of ethics in marketing.

Jar's comment didn't read derogatorily to me, as I took the term "sophomoric" in the sense of elementary, simplistic, etc. It was certainly no more hostile than passive agressive comments directed back at him. One needn't use the exact same structure and manner of dialog to be honestly interested in discussion, and there is no need for you to assume that.

I'm still on the fence about the issue, as neither side has proven harm or lack of same.

[grainweevil]

I'm still on the fence about the issue, as neither side has proven harm or lack of same.

Oh cripes, Jon, don't encourage them.

[Jon Szanto]

I'm still on the fence about the issue, as neither side has proven harm or lack of same.

Oh cripes, Jon, don't encourage them.

My work here is done.

[Woody]

Precious, oh precious resin.

[grainweevil]

Some further news via a retailer, this time NAGASAWA PenStyle-DEN in Japan via Facebook on 16th July. It's not good. For your delectation, the deplorable Google translation:

Delta Long Term Closed Notice
I am sorry, Italian Delta company will be closed for long term.
However, as for what we are currently offering for repair in Italy, return to Japan, as long as the Japanese agent can do
He seems to hesitate to do so. Things that can not be done are, however, to be returned.
We apologize for any inconvenience, thank you for your understanding.
Entering long-term closure, inquiries and purchasing of delta products has increased.
Customers who wanted Delta, please GET this opportunity.

[Josephtibbetts]

aka, time to buy that Oversized delta I've been eyeing