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Thread: "Harsh Inks"

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    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I haven't loaded a pen with Waterman Blue in quite awhile. My recollection is that it looks great when it's fresh on the page but loses something by the next day. I use Waterman Purple with some regularity, though. Awhile back I got dozens of purple samples and chose my favorite. Turns out, oddly enough, that Waterman Purple is it.
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Waterman purple is also a fantastic ink. Overlooked. Ever time I have it loaded in a pen and someone tries it they are like, " is this the new sparkletastic radioactive organic free range 1367 Limited Release Japanese Department Store Special noodle pony whatever ink"?

    Nope. Waterman Purple.

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    Senior Member grainweevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Definitely needs to be more love for Waterman Purple. Although Serenity Blue is my go-to for pen testing, and I recall one vintage pen being such a gusher I ended up with copious sheen from it. Which was fun.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    I haven't loaded a pen with Waterman Blue in quite awhile. My recollection is that it looks great when it's fresh on the page but loses something by the next day. I use Waterman Purple with some regularity, though.
    This. Or +1. I'm sure other people have had totally different experiences, but on the paper I'm most likely to use, Waterman blue goes down with what I think is a beautiful color. Then, all too soon, things go downhill. The ink seems to fade rapidly without any exposure to light. A physicist friend, not inclined to go along with Web folklore, reported to me that entire notebooks turned to blank paper in far less than a year. For an ink he'd used for recording data, that wasn't good news.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Tarshis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    I haven't loaded a pen with Waterman Blue in quite awhile. My recollection is that it looks great when it's fresh on the page but loses something by the next day. I use Waterman Purple with some regularity, though.
    This. Or +1. I'm sure other people have had totally different experiences, but on the paper I'm most likely to use, Waterman blue goes down with what I think is a beautiful color. Then, all too soon, things go downhill. The ink seems to fade rapidly without any exposure to light. A physicist friend, not inclined to go along with Web folklore, reported to me that entire notebooks turned to blank paper in far less than a year. For an ink he'd used for recording data, that wasn't good news.
    word

    I so want to like this color, and then it just craps out as it dries over a few hours.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Odd.

    I just looked over a half dozen notebooks/research/whatever dating back to 2011. MD, L!fe, Conifer, Rhodia, CF, L1917 and a TON of Tsubame University notebooks (love those!).

    I use a lot of Waterman Fl. Blue in my vintage pens.

    My words are all still there. As spectacularly uninteresting as ever.

    Now I do also used Sailor Ultramarine, Aurora Blue, MB Royal Blue and other similar blues so this isn't science but I can see some pretty clear Waterman pages and they all look fine to me.

    I spent all week with the Sheaffer PFM III I bought on here from Kyle inked up with Waterman Florida Blue and a Sheaffer Admiral with Waterman Fl. Blue. I made a note of that in this week's notes ("hey this is Waterman Fl. Blue dummy").

    If I am still alive in a few years I'LL CHECK BACK WITH YOU. Maybe it does fade. If it does, I guess I am not seeing the dramatic disappearance others are. But my books stay closed and on the shelf when not in use so that maybe helps.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I want someone to explain what the PH level in ink's have in regards to harshness.
    Last edited by southpaw52; August 25th, 2017 at 12:26 PM.


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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw52 View Post
    I want to clarify what the PH level in ink's role in regards to harshness.
    Please go ahead and clarify.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw52 View Post
    I want to clarify what the PH level in ink's role in regards to harshness.
    Please go ahead and clarify.
    Sorry I have edited my post, I am looking for an answer to the PH level in regards to harshness.


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    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    After the discussion about it here, I inked up a wet Parker 51 with Waterman Blue. I like it, but it does go down with a crisp violet "edginess" and dries to a more "plain" blue. I like both the fresh and settled colors, but they are a little different.
    Last edited by mhosea; August 25th, 2017 at 09:05 PM.
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    Senior Member grainweevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    Odd.

    I just looked over a half dozen notebooks/research/whatever dating back to 2011. MD, L!fe, Conifer, Rhodia, CF, L1917 and a TON of Tsubame University notebooks (love those!).

    I use a lot of Waterman Fl. Blue in my vintage pens.

    My words are all still there. As spectacularly uninteresting as ever.

    Now I do also used Sailor Ultramarine, Aurora Blue, MB Royal Blue and other similar blues so this isn't science but I can see some pretty clear Waterman pages and they all look fine to me.

    I spent all week with the Sheaffer PFM III I bought on here from Kyle inked up with Waterman Florida Blue and a Sheaffer Admiral with Waterman Fl. Blue. I made a note of that in this week's notes ("hey this is Waterman Fl. Blue dummy").

    If I am still alive in a few years I'LL CHECK BACK WITH YOU. Maybe it does fade. If it does, I guess I am not seeing the dramatic disappearance others are. But my books stay closed and on the shelf when not in use so that maybe helps.
    My experience has been much the same, Stub. I was wondering if the paper in the "disappearing ink" notebooks might be the cause, rather than the ink.

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    High saturation alone isn't the issue, from what I can see. I've been using the supersaturated Organics Studio Walden Pond and Nitrogen Royal Blue in my Pelikan 400 and Soennecken 111 and so far have had no issues with barrel staining, clogging, or hard starting (O.S seems to make the best-formulated inks out there). I think the dye used along with the other liquid components probably play a more important role.
    Last edited by fountainpenkid; August 27th, 2017 at 07:45 AM.
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    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    My pens are modern pens with converters and I believe any ink noncarbon residues etc will cause any flowing problem slightly in longer use.But with the ink like India caligraphy ink theey are more harmful.So I am avoiding them. Even shimmy ink like some diamine Ink cause this clogging I read.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw52 View Post
    I want someone to explain what the PH level in ink's have in regards to harshness.
    I was going to try to answer your query about acid, PH neutral and alkaline inks, but I think Richard Binder does a perfect job of explaining it in his article Here

    Also, once you have read the article about PH and inks, you can then check his report on the PH values of more than 60 inks Here

    Happy reading.

    According to Richard Binder, Waterman ink is not a harsh ink, but iron-gall ink is. This is why I don't use iron-gall ink in any of my pens. This is what Richard says about it:

    Quote: Iíve left one particular type of ink until the end. Iron gall ink was invented more than 1500 years ago. It was used by innumerable nameless scribes to copy sacred manuscripts; by great secular writers and thinkers such as Voltaire, Shakespeare, and Leibniz; and by ordinary people. When fountain pens came into existence, iron gall ink made the leap to the new technology, and it is still in use today because it is a very permanent ink. But it has a couple of drawbacks. First, but of less serious consequence for most of us, is its reputation for destroying, over the course of centuries, the paper on which it is used.[2] Of more concern to you, as a fountain pen user, is that it is rather acidic: it can corrode metal pen parts such as steel nibs and cartridge nipples, and plated trim rings ó every part that comes in contact with it. Only gold alloys are safe from its ravages; if your pen features a gold nib and has no other metal parts that are continually exposed to the ink (such as a metal cartridge nipple), you can use iron gall inks such as Montblanc Blue-Black and Diamine Registrarís ink with impunity.

    You should note that iron gall ink is not the only acidic ink that is currently available. Your best course, if youíre concerned about the pH of your inks, is to look for inks that advertise neutral-pH formulas.
    Last edited by Chrissy; October 23rd, 2017 at 02:54 PM.

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    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Richard's treatment is a little overblown. It's not that I would recommend using IG ink in a pen with steel in contact with the ink, but in fact, I have kept just such a pen inked with an IG ink on my desktop at work for years with no apparent ill effects. I'll bet the plating underneath the nib next to the feed is gone, but a lot of inks will do that. I don't see any "ravages".
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw52 View Post
    I want someone to explain what the PH level in ink's have in regards to harshness.
    Minimal to none.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw52 View Post
    I want someone to explain what the PH level in ink's have in regards to harshness.
    Richard Binder explains what the PH level in inks have in regards to harshness in his article about Inks: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    It's well worth reading.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    I've found in my testing that red/magenta inks are incredibly acidic, while blue inks outrageously alkaline.
    The safest inks to use are of course, green.
    This made me laugh out loud!
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