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Thread: "Harsh Inks"

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    Senior Member stevekolt's Avatar
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    Default "Harsh Inks"

    I have an Edison Menlo Pump Filler. Brian suggests not using harsh inks due to the latex diaphragm. What do you cosider to be "harsh inks"? And yes, I've reached out to Brian for clarification...

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    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I suspect Brian's position is fairly well-aligned with Richard Binder's .
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Interested, but clueless. Please enlighten us if you get an answer?
    "Nolo esse salus sine vobis ...” —St. Augustine

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I suspect some might consider Noodler's to be a harsh ink for a pen with a sac.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I think a Iroshizuku ink was supposed to of messed up an Edison sac once. He should put a list on his website of inks he doesn't think work well with his sacs. Some Noodler's inks probably won't be good in there either, especially Warden inks.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Harsh = highly saturated.

    YMMV

    Fred

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    If that ("harsh") is all that the website/manual states, then that is a very vague disclaimer. Unhelpful. No wonder you have questions.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    The vagueness is necessary. They don't really know details. It's an allusion to perceived anecdotal correlation of unexpected failures with inks like Noodler's and Private Reserve. Depending on who you ask, they might include modern IG or Japanese inks in the suspect list. While I remain a skeptic due to the poor methodology they are using to draw these conclusions, I nevertheless think the advice is well-meaning and apropos, at least for the masses without the requisite skills to replace sacs and diaphragms should the need arise prematurely for whatever reasons. I don't have many be-sac'd pens left, but I use whatever ink I want and just pay attention to the performance of the sac and whether it starts to stick. There's no corresponding thing for diaphragms, so maybe it does make a lot of sense to confine oneself to more mundane inks in such pens.
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Received a reply from Brian, "Noodler’s, Private Reserve, and Iroshizuku."

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by stevekolt View Post
    Received a reply from Brian, "Noodler’s, Private Reserve, and Iroshizuku."
    Sounds like a wild generalisation, ala good ink versus bad ink......

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    The vagueness is necessary. They don't really know details. It's an allusion to perceived anecdotal correlation of unexpected failures with inks like Noodler's and Private Reserve. Depending on who you ask, they might include modern IG or Japanese inks in the suspect list. While I remain a skeptic due to the poor methodology they are using to draw these conclusions, I nevertheless think the advice is well-meaning and apropos, at least for the masses without the requisite skills to replace sacs and diaphragms should the need arise prematurely for whatever reasons. I don't have many be-sac'd pens left, but I use whatever ink I want and just pay attention to the performance of the sac and whether it starts to stick. There's no corresponding thing for diaphragms, so maybe it does make a lot of sense to confine oneself to more mundane inks in such pens.
    Well-meaning, probably.
    Apropos, maybe.
    Helpful, no.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stevekolt View Post
    Received a reply from Brian, "Noodler’s, Private Reserve, and Iroshizuku."
    Sounds like a wild generalisation, ala good ink versus bad ink......
    What in all those inks--dozens--could be chemically harmful to sacs? Can someone please be empirically specific?

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    I was told not to use Noodlers or any of the private reserves.. and all the shimmer inks.

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Thank you. I will write this down for future reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevekolt View Post
    Received a reply from Brian, "Noodler’s, Private Reserve, and Iroshizuku."

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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Noted, thank you!
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    All I got is wild anecdotal BS to add to the lot but I am 96.1782719% convinced that Iroshizuku Asa-gao melted the sacs on pretty much every snorkel pen (5 of them) I just sent to a trusted restorer.

    I got an angry email and lots and lots of pictures of goo-i-fied sacs that required painstaking work with naptha (usually avoided) and dental picks, etc.

    Some of these pens were recently restored, some not, so none of this is scientific or would hold up in the court of law but the common denominator here was that each pen came on board while I was in a wild hot love afair with a bottle of Asa-gao I got on a trip to Japan and I inked all but one of them with this ink at some point. I should have stuck to my usual but I trust Pilot implicitly. One of my very favorite brands.

    I still love and use Iroshizuku Asa-gao, nearly the perfect medium-dark blue, but only in cartridge pens from now on. My theory is that the ink is too strongly alkaline for some types of pen sacs.

    Again. Long time Sheaffer nerd. Have had more pneumatic pens than you can shake a stick at and have never before melted a sac (usually they tear). The only thing that I can think of is that a few years back I went on a Iroshizuku Asa-gao bender and I had to sweet talk an angry restorer who was probably ready charge me double for all the extra work he had to do.

    If anyone has an extra pneumatic pen sac and about 2 years to wait. I got money that says keeping your snorkel or TD pen inked continuously with Asa-gao probably melts yo' sac like ice-cream on a hot day.

    YMMV
    Last edited by stub; July 31st, 2017 at 11:42 PM.

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    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    If anyone has an extra pneumatic pen sac and about 2 years to wait. I got money that says keeping your snorkel or TD pen inked continuously with Asa-gao probably melts yo' sac like ice-cream on a hot day.
    Quite possible. I only use PVC sacs in Snorkels (Woodbin "silicone"). Ron Zorn made that recommendation, and it made good sense to me, especially since Snorkel sacs are in contact with metal (so the metal inhibitor in the latex had better be there and be right, or else it's turning to goo in time whether or not you fill it with ink). Capacity is slightly reduced, but the peace of mind is worth it.
    --
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Would Parker Blue Black be a 'safer' ink? Have a sac pen with flex nib I want to try it in.

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    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Quote Originally Posted by Armstrong View Post
    Would Parker Blue Black be a 'safer' ink? Have a sac pen with flex nib I want to try it in.
    Yes, I believe that they believe that it is.
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    Default Re: "Harsh Inks"

    Unfortunately a constant and interesting debate. I had a Menlo fail with Noodler and Iroshizuku inks. I now stay away from saturated inks. I can tell you what inks are safe. Mont Blanc, Sailor, Diamine blues, Sheaffer and anything without red. I believe that dangers can be reduced with careful selection of sac material. Edison now produces a new plunger filler simply because of those sac failures.
    Last edited by Woody; August 10th, 2017 at 08:49 AM.

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