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Thread: War Stories

  1. #41
    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Paul now comes to mind. Our funeral home sponsored a high school ROTC student to attend the Memorial Bataan Death March. It's a course similar to what the original soldiers walked and a fundraiser for ROTC, attended by young people, veterans, etc.

    Our young man walked awhile with a sturdy old vet who had survived the March himself. After hearing Paul's story, he reflected on his own abilities and resiliency and decided to redouble his efforts in school and in his ROTC unit. This kid was considered to be high risk for dropping out but now has college plans.

    We picked Paul up at his home this winter and gave him a loving and honorable Veteran's funeral. As we would for anyone who comes under our care. The boy spoke of his gratitude to him for who he was as part of the eulogy.

    Rest in peace, Paul. 1922 - 2018
    Last edited by VertOlive; May 5th, 2018 at 04:52 PM.
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  3. #42
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Well title of the thread is war stories, so we can also start with stories of all the war crimes and disgusting acts american military complex does around the globe.
    What about your own country's veterans? Why run another country down? The USA has stood beside allies and friendly nations. I have served it. Your complaints sound like the 1960s ones made by people too young and naïve to understand the score. Did you enjoy being under the Soviet boot? Thank Reagan and the vets who pulled alerts in missile silos, submarines and bombers. They outlasted the USSR.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country. Probably Slovakia.

    USA has done A LOT of good in this world. More than bad, probably. I’d just rather cherish that.

    I have zero sympathy for our war veterans, since they’re all communists. But we, as a country, have never ever in our history been the aggressor.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    I find it interesting that most of these conversations are being had by those who did not serve. I did. I was part of the Cold War, both Gulf Wars, Bosnia, and others.

    1. The soldier does not choose where they serve, but their service is one that they see as honorable and a sword and sheild to protect the nation and its people. YOU don't have to agree with the political reason but that is not the soldier who decides to leave when they disagree.
    2. Not fighting a war on your own soil does not mean that you are not defending your country. WWI and WWII were not faught in the US, but their national interests and the protection of America were closely tied to a free Europe and Asia. The Gulf Wars involved global politics and global economies (sorry, oil IS important currently just like food).
    3. To say that we have never been an aggressor, I would disagree. Let us start with the French-Indian War, Tripoli, Civil War, War Against the Indian, the invasion into Mexico, Spanish-American War, and Iraq.

    Those who serve should be honored. Not because of the wars they didn't choose to fight in, but because they gave up their freedom of choice with the belief that you should have your freedoms protected. They accept that their blood and breath are possibly sacrificial for the community. Even more today-- that their lives when they return will be battered and broken (physically and mentally). Those stories should not be recorded to say killing is great. Anyone who says anything glorious about war has never spent a day in the suck. No war veteran will ever tell that story. We keep those stories to know the costs that are needed to be a nation. We honor the sacrifice. We see the fear, sadness, and horror and appreciate what is done so that we don't send others needlessly.

    Talk to a veteran who has ever served on a front line, and you may change your mind about the flip way people speak hatefully from within their secret gardens.

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  8. #45
    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickler View Post
    I find it interesting that most of these conversations are being had by those who did not serve
    Honestly, living behind avatars and screen names as we do, we don't know here who has served and who hasn't. That said, my contributions are from the perspective of one whose family business is to honor the dead and this is a thread to memorialize veterans. My genuine thanks to you for you service.

    Since a forum is an exchange of ideas, I really wonder where fellow pen geek adhoc gets all this anger. Personal experience? The media? The answer would be very telling, I think.
    Last edited by VertOlive; May 6th, 2018 at 05:56 AM.
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  9. #46
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Deterrence. The Titan II site at which I pulled most of my alerts, 571-7, is now preserved as a museum. It's south of Tucson, Arizona. If you are in the area, you might check it out. I can't even remember how many rattlesnakes I had to catch and release outside the perimerer fence. .

  10. #47
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    Default Re: War Stories

    I didn't realize I need a reason to be against killing people for money.

    Guessed wrong.
    Last edited by adhoc; May 6th, 2018 at 08:43 AM.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    I didn't realize I need a reason to be against killing people for money.

    Guessed wrong.
    I can see the philosophical argument, even if I don't agree. But let me extend that argument: would you kill someone if they were going to rape a murder someone in front of you. What if it was your daughter? What if it was yourself?

    I am by nature a pacifist. Unlike most, I did see combat and can proudly say that I have never taken a life while I had mine put in harms way over and over again. Was I trained? Yes. Fortunately, the nature of my job allowed me excuse to never unholster my pistol or unsling my rifle when I was being shot at.

    Most people in the military would be if they could be. Nevertheless, like the police, the fire department, and other helping services-- they see their jobs not as killers but protectors. Our rules are strict to ensure codes of conduct to minimize the loss of life. We infuse people with concepts of honor so that any life lost is only those necessary. Unlike the police, the rules of engagement are sometimes proactive, but they are measured. The military job is to protect not be mercenary. That is the case with most modern militaries of the industrialized world. The military is only an extension of politics.

    Now we can have another conversation on the role of politicians: people who don't sacrifice themselves but others for political and financial gain; as well as humanitarian reason.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    Of course soldiers are not to blame, they’re just a tool to politics. Of course they don’t make decisions, they are a tool. They’re a tool be used and discarded. Tools don’t think, they do. Some will even become a lifelong trumpet of propaganda they’ve been taught, as can be seen in this thread.

    If we - and by we I mean you really, rest of the world does not do this - stop glorifying these tools, perhaps people will start appreciating their abilities more than seeing military as a honorable career.

    The dilemma you presented is not factual; US never went to war to defend itself, except MAYBE pacific theater in WW2, and even then it wasn’t unprovoked. Defense is something completely different. Fighting for enforcement of petrodollar, on the other hand, is not noble. It’s putting a price tag on human lives.

  13. #50
    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Still waiting for an answer to my question....
    "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life"?—Mary Oliver

  14. #51
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by VertOlive View Post
    Still waiting for an answer to my question....
    That person has a chip on his shoulder, and to any thinking college graduate veteran he appears to be anti American, and is determined to disrupt this thread with irrelevant and inflammatory arguments. What do they call this, a troll?

  15. #52
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country.
    Slovenia was part of the old Yugoslavia, and Tito was a Soviet puppet and a tyrant in his own right. My grandmother was Slovenian, and my mother lived in Trieste and as a girl spent her summers in Slovenia and loved it. I've never been there but I've seen photographs. Beautiful country.
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    Default Re: War Stories

    DELETE

  18. #54
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    I wish to add here that I believe adhoc's comments are appropriate perhaps for the lounge, but are disruptive in this thread. I have edited my profile to make my first entry in the ignored members list. The spirit of the original post does not seem to include bitter anti-Americanism, and so I will not be viewing such posts..

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    Default Re: War Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    I wish to add here that I believe adhoc's comments are appropriate perhaps for the lounge, but are disruptive in this thread. I have edited my profile to make my first entry in the ignored members list. The spirit of the original post does not seem to include bitter anti-Americanism, and so I will not be viewing such posts..
    That's a very childish worldview. Blocking opinions you dislike? What is this, the kindergarden? I absolutely admire USA. Just because I hate a thing about it, it does not mean I hate everything about it. I hate more things about my own country than about USA, but I still love my country.

    I am sorry if I am the first person you have met that does not fit into your simplistic opinion boxes. Or perhaps I'm not, you just blocked every one of them out of your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country.
    Slovenia was part of the old Yugoslavia, and Tito was a Soviet puppet and a tyrant in his own right. My grandmother was Slovenian, and my mother lived in Trieste and as a girl spent her summers in Slovenia and loved it. I've never been there but I've seen photographs. Beautiful country.
    Yugoslavia was distinctly the third party - one to be against both USA and USSR. Drawing money from both, yes, but sided with neither. You're right, Tito is in many ways admired as a great leader, but I'm not sorry when I say fuck him, I'd gladly spit on his grave. There were killings and enslavement of thinkers under his boot. As communists tend to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by VertOlive View Post
    Still waiting for an answer to my question....
    And you already got it. As said, I do not need an external influence to be against killing people for money.

    If I am a troll for disrupting a self masturbatory thread of killers for money, then I am gladly a troll. Everywhere I can influence people to see that military career is for simpletons and that they can achieve much more than be mere tools in their lives, I will do my very best to do so. Especially USA, where opportunities are truly limitless!

    If people do not have the right to end a human life, and the government is a group of people that represent the interests of the former, then what gives the government the right to issue kill orders? And with that I will leave this thread.
    Last edited by adhoc; May 7th, 2018 at 02:52 AM.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    I agree with adhoc, also in my opinion there was no war after WW2 the US was involved (and there were many titled as wars or simply as conflicts or interactions) which were self defence actions.

    No other country destabilized the world more than the US.
    All the crap in the near east was initially caused by the US and their many interactions, as they can´t resist to play world police and enforce their own interests.

    They start the fire and do not care about the results.

    Especially in the near East where they destabilized many countries (by direct interaction or selling weapons (even to both sides)) they do not care about the results.
    The local people there and Europe (with all the refugees) suffers from their actions.
    Unfortunately Europe never got the guts to stand up against the US till now, but this might change (hopefully this will change, currently with the Iran)

    We should send them the millions of refugees they caused.

    They don´t stop, currently most visible when trying to split Europe and Russia and the attempt to destabilize the Iran and Syria even more.

    We might not like how these countries are ruled, but when we look back the last 30 years then we see 1 thing very clearly that every single dictator they had was much better then anything else which followed.
    They are not ready for democracy, every attempt to enforce it will end in destabilization, chaos, terror and religious fanatism.

    So also for me there are no US veteran hero’s after WW2.
    They should have better stayed home instead, waiting for a Defence situation which never happened.

    But the mighty US weapon industry need continuous conflicts to sell their stuff all over the planet.
    Long life the capitalism and the shareholder value.

    And of course global warming does not happen.... just alternative facts and an invention of the Chinese ...... what can a thinking human say to such a crap.
    Just you got the leader you deserve......

    There is no need to glorify wars, soldiers and militarism. (And history shows that the US is very prone to it)
    Last edited by Pterodactylus; May 7th, 2018 at 10:30 AM.

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    Default Re: War Stories

    @ adhoc - as much as you disavow Communism, your rantings are classic, textbook Communist propaganda
    @ Pterodactylus - the US has stood up against Communism, and used its military as well as other avenues of opposition. Communism has been infinitely more destructive than US policy, even on those occasions when the latter has been arguably somewhat misguided.
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    Default Re: War Stories

    I promised I will no longer reply here, but this one I just have to. Considering communists in this country either killed or banned most of my family members for being "Windische" (Austrian) Slovenians, and the only few women allowed to remain had to change their last name into a Slovenian version, it would be incredibly stupid of me to side with such a vicious and murderous ideology, don't you think? Hell, I personally still had to deal with the deprivatization act as demanded by EU before Slovenia was allowed to join. My last name has since been changed back to the Austrian version. My mother, as a little girl, was regularly dragged to UDBA (our ex-secret service) with my grandmother because she was afraid she will either "suicide herself" or will randomly "vanish", as people tend to do under communism.

    Being against war is not communistic, for the love of God. World is not black and white.

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    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    However many choose to spew their hatred of US military veterans, know that you only encourage me to post on this thread the memorials of those who I will meet and perform funeral services for as long as God so allows me.

    I am daughter and wife to US Military Veterans.

    To boot, I am stubborn and no troll will cause me to ignore "it" [not sure, here, on genders among trolls] nor to desist in being cordial as I continue my efforts to memorialize the lives of these good people.
    "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life"?—Mary Oliver

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    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Default Re: War Stories

    True, the US held back the Communism, and I´m grateful that I was born in a free western democratic country.


    But back to the topic.
    War is never heroic, clean, glorious, whatever.

    It is always brutal, cruel, dirty, deadly, devastating and inhuman.

    To glorify militarism,soldiers and pathetic nationalism is used since eons to attract young naive men in all counties to have enough fat-stock slaughtered at the battlegrounds.

    There is no heroism in fighting in a war, it just destroying the lifes of the fighting people and their families.
    Even the survivors are often psychologically destroyed unable to continue living a normal life.

    Mainly young people are sent to foreign countries to fight the “Enemy” for their home country.
    And also on the other side young people are sent to defend their home country.

    They do not know each other but somebody told them that they are enemies and they have to kill the others, for god, and fatherland.

    I can not see what should be glorious or good by doing that.

    Collecting war stories from heroic soldiers only smoothens the path for the next generation slaughtered for god, government and fatherland.


    To say it with Bruce Springsteen’s words:

    Got in a little hometown jam
    So they put a rifle in my hand
    Sent me off to a foreign land
    To go and kill the yellow man

    And on the other side also young men were sent to defend their home country........

    What is glorious and heroic on this......

    On both sides fought young men brave for the ideals of their countries/religions/ or just because somebody told them to do so, because it’s the right thing to do .......... and died for it or were physical and/or mentally crippled.......

    Really heroic and glorious,.....isnˋt it?

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