Stub vs italic vs pilot parallel?

[ShugPug]

Of the above (in semi normal sizes...), which, and why?

In a few months, I'll be in the happy position of being able to get a pen nib modified to my preferences, and at the moment, I'm enjoying writing with both a 1.1 mm stub, and a Pilot Parallel 1.5 mm. My assumption is that a cursive italic would fall somewhere in the middle of these, and a formal italic nearer the Pilot. I can't really justify having more than one nib ground (yet...) - so the question really hinges around how scratchy a formal italic is? I love the crisp lines of the Pilot, but don't think I'd fit it comfortable to hold for long. And it is probably a little too extreme for a professional environment... The 1.1 on the other hand, could give more one variation...

Sorry for the rambling question - I think what I am trying to ask is how a 1.2-1.4 mm formal or cursive italic nib would compare with a Pilot Parallel, or a (modern steel) stub?

Thanks!

[KrazyIvan]

I don't think they make Parallels that small. In any case, it is going to depend on your personal handwriting style. I find that 1.1mm is the comfortable size for me but I can use 1.5mm if I really try and only on Christmas cards.

[SIR]

I'm not really sure what difference exists between a cursive italic and a stub, but i would reckon on a stub being more 'cursive' than a cursive italic.

[KrazyIvan]

A stub has softer edges on the grind than a cursive italic. The stub is more forgiving than a cursive italic if you tend to rotate the nib while writing.

[ShugPug]

I don't think they make Parallels that small. In any case, it is going to depend on your personal handwriting style. I find that 1.1mm is the comfortable size for me but I can use 1.5mm if I really try and only on Christmas cards.

The 1.5 is the smallest they do and is my introduction to the Parallel range - I suspect, but don't absolutely know, that it is even crisper than a formal italic. I'm leaning towards a cursive italic as the Parallel's lines look lovely, but I find it quite hard to use...

[Wile E Coyote]

Based on your characterization of the parallel being "too extreme for a professional environment," I'd suggest a cursive italic.

An inexpensive option to try a cursive italic is a Lamy Joy calligraphy pen in 1.1 italic or if you have an Al-Star or Safari get the 1.1 nib and do a quick swap. It's sharp enough to give good variation, yet the edges are rounded enough not to dig if your alignment isn't perfect.

[ShugPug]

An inexpensive option to try a cursive italic is a Lamy Joy calligraphy pen in 1.1 italic or if you have an Al-Star or Safari get the 1.1 nib and do a quick swap. It's sharp enough to give good variation, yet the edges are rounded enough not to dig if your alignment isn't perfect.

I had assumed that they were stubs for some reason. I will give them a go! Thank you.

[Ted A]

I presume that by crisp you are referring to the ease or difficulty of sliding across the page. Crisper being more likely to dig into the paper, less crisp being more like a ball nib for how easy it is to just write without concern with the orientation of the nib. The only Parallel that I have is the 3.8mm. Based upon that, the Parallels are far LESS crisp than formal or cursive italics and many of the stubs. Writing with just the corner of the nib is fairly similar to a normal fine nib that isn't glass smooth.

[Scooby921]

When I remember to fix the pictures / links in my cursive italic thread I'll have line variation "show and tell" for you. I've owned a lot of different cursive italic nibs.

For what it's worth the standard 1.1/1.3/1.5mm steel stub nibs offered by TWSBI, Edison, and others using a Jowo nib are actually cursive italics. Italics, like the Pilot Parallels, are generally a flat blade. A cursive italic knocks the corners off to keep it from being so scratchy and toothy. Every nib I've had ground into a cursive italic has had most of its tipping material ground off to get back to that flat blade shape. I even had a stub ground into a cursive italic because it didn't have enough line variation for me.

[touzeen01]

If you can, get a Franklin Christoph S.I.G nib in Broad.

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[ShugPug]

If you can, get a Franklin Christoph S.I.G nib in Broad.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Interesting - it took some digging to find out what S. I. G. stood for, but looks very interesting! I'm good to get a Safari with an italic nib first, but an FC may well be my first three figure pen...

Thank you for all the suggestions in this thread - definitely given me some options!

[Scooby921]

I can't find my pictures. I'll have to create something new.

I will second or third the Franklin-Christoph recommendations. I've owned two Masuyama ground CI's from F-C. Both have been great. One was steel, the current is gold, both medium nibs. The gold nib is a little more smooth on the page, but the steel wasn't scratchy and produced more defined line variation for such a narrow nib.

[Inkflow]

IMO, the Pilot Parallel 1.5 was the best calligraphy pen I've ever used, and that's versus stubs and obliques.


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[touzeen01]

I got my S.I.G at a Pen show along with 1 Cursive Italic by Mike Masuyama and 2 Cursive Italics by Dan Smith.
I find the M.M C.I the smoothest followed by the S.I.G.

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[grainweevil]

If you can, get a Franklin Christoph S.I.G nib in Broad.

Interesting - it took some digging to find out what S. I. G. stood for...

And yet I still remain in ignorance. Stub In Gin? Slightly Italic Gremlin?

My own observations sez that Italic to Cursive Italic to Stub is a sliding scale, the points at which each appear varying from nib wallah to nib wallah. Pick your wallah and hope for the best, or pick several and find out which suits you. One of the many reasons I decided to learn to do it myself, because I can slide my scale to suit me.

[ShugPug]

Stub In Gin? Slightly Italic Gremlin?

Whilst the former sounds awesome, and the latter, slightly concerning, it is actually Stub. Italic. Gradient. Obviously...

[FredRydr]

It is my impression that "cursive" italic was coined by one of our contemporary nibmeisters to distinguish such a grind from a straight ("crisp") italic grind. One nib repairman haughtily rejected the term when I asked for such a finish to the tip of a cracked nib to be welded, correcting me to use the term "stub." I see it as a semantics ego spat more than anything, but you should know who you're dealing with when you choose terms for a particular grind, or you may not get what you want.

[grainweevil]

Stub In Gin? Slightly Italic Gremlin?

Whilst the former sounds awesome, and the latter, slightly concerning, it is actually Stub. Italic. Gradient. Obviously...

Well, obviously. Thanks; I'd never have got there!

[wingwiper]

IMO, the Pilot Parallel 1.5 was the best calligraphy pen I've ever used, and that's versus stubs and obliques.


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I have all 3..........

The Pilot Parallel agreed is hard to beat and has the best bang for the buck............at least for crisp italic.

Cursive Italic's are just plain fun to write with, especially for extended periods. If you hold it at a higher vertical position you get an even thinner line on the horizontal stroke.

Stubs are OK......., but get kind of boring when compared to any CI- cursive or crisp. Great signature nibs though.

I do like Pendleton Brown's BLS which is kind of a "hybrid" between the two? You can get some decent line variation when holding the pen a little higher on the vertical, but it is mostly stubbish and I have 3 of his nibs.

I have a couple cursive italics with nice flex added by John Mottishaw years ago that are just crazy fun to write with, not to mention good flow.

I have a Conklin "stub" that Mark Bacas reground to a cursive italic that is on of the smoothest and fun steel nibs I own.

If you want something different grab one of Greg Minuskin's needle points with flex for Copper Plate or Spencerian writing- he is very reasonable. He does not grind CI's though...........

Out of all my crazy nibs that I have paid to be modded...........the ones done by John Mottishaw abt 15 years ago- cursive italic with LOTS of flex are my favorites.

I have reground some Noodler's nibs to real thin crisp italics that are on the cheap and fun to write with as well as a couple of Goulet's #6 nibs I that I stuck into a few Noodler's. Great nibs straight out the box and even better when tweaked.

Hope this helps...............

[ShugPug]

Hope this helps...............

It does - thank you!

I have a Lamy 1.1 and 1.5 on the way, and am keeping my eyes open for an F-C S.I.G. I think my first modded nib will be a broad cursive italic, although an italic with flex does sound fun...