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Thread: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Runnin_Ute's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

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    "None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

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    Jon Szanto (January 9th, 2018)

  3. #42
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?

  4. #43
    Senior Member Runnin_Ute's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?
    Not familiar with that rule.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Brad "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling

    "None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

  5. #44
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?
    Not familiar with that rule.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    This, more or less:

    In any product review the review must be genuine in nature, the person may just be posting a genuine opinion. In such cases, these posts are not considered advertisements.

    When the brand has control over the content of the post and/or provides copy or approval for the review, and/or rewards the writer with a payment, free gifts (such as ink or a pen), including the product for review, or other perk, the post becomes an advertisement.

    If there is doubt then the review should be labelled as an advertisement so as not to break the rules and mislead the reviewers audience which could otherwise result in censure and/or a fine to the reviewer and the internet host.

  6. #45
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?
    There is not such a rule. FPN once considered applying one, but the idea seems to have been scrapped. No ink manufacturer has ever provided me with any information that they have asked me to say. Not that I would say it even if they did

  7. #46
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?
    Not familiar with that rule.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    This, more or less:

    In any product review the review must be genuine in nature, the person may just be posting a genuine opinion. In such cases, these posts are not considered advertisements.

    When the brand has control over the content of the post and/or provides copy or approval for the review, and/or rewards the writer with a payment, free gifts (such as ink or a pen), including the product for review, or other perk, the post becomes an advertisement.

    If there is doubt then the review should be labelled as an advertisement so as not to break the rules and mislead the reviewers audience which could otherwise result in censure and/or a fine to the reviewer and the internet host.
    I've started to review inks using a combination of the reviews of the two very best reviewers on FPN. I usually try to not give a personal opinion of what I think, whether I like it or I don't. Because no-one cares about that. I just write with it and say whether it seems wet or dry, smooth and lubricated, or not, shows through, bleeds through, is saturated or not, dries quickly or slowly, on different papers and what other ink colours are similar. These reviewers whose review types I have partially plagiarised have similar review styles. The surprising thing was that obviously the sad trolls didn't seem to be aware of that, so they hadn't read the review. Nor did they know I had reviewed a Montblanc ink and a Sailor ink immediately prior to the Diamine one. That's how they showed they were trolls.

    No brand that I've reviewed has ever had any control over my review or provided any copy or approval for my reviews. If they had I wouldn't do the review. Of course I get to keep the ink samples. They are used samples after all so no point in sending them back, No-one would want them.

    Here's a funny thing. Before I started doing any ink reviews, I bought some Lamy Nexx M pens with different nibs and caps. I bought all of the colours except the Olive Green - that I still don't have. Then I received some small samples of ink to review, in the bottom of Diamine 30ml plastic bottles, and found the Nexx pen nibs couldn't reach down as far as the ink level. If only I had bought Safaris or Al-stars!

  8. #47
    Senior Member Morgaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    I have plastic shot glasses I can pour a few drops of ink in, if the ink level in the bottle is hard to reach via normal means!

    You do great ink reviews.

  9. #48
    Senior Member Runnin_Ute's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    Not familiar with the thread in question, but that doesn't matter. I have been reading Chrissy's posts on both ink and other topics for years and learned a lot. I am reasonably certain that she doesn't deserve the abuse that said troll has heaped upon her. As for any relationship she may or may not have with Diamine or any other manufacturer or retailer, I don't see it. It appears to me she has done some ink reviews some even on inks prior to official release. I have done that before, during the development phase even. My compensation? I got to keep and use the ink being reviewed. I suspect any pre release reviews were done similarly.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I didnt see the thread either but isnt there some advertising rule that when you review products that have been provided by a brand and the brand provides information that you have to say Its an Advertisement' at the top of the review? Is that what you mean Ute?
    Not familiar with that rule.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    This, more or less:

    In any product review the review must be genuine in nature, the person may just be posting a genuine opinion. In such cases, these posts are not considered advertisements.

    When the brand has control over the content of the post and/or provides copy or approval for the review, and/or rewards the writer with a payment, free gifts (such as ink or a pen), including the product for review, or other perk, the post becomes an advertisement.

    If there is doubt then the review should be labelled as an advertisement so as not to break the rules and mislead the reviewers audience which could otherwise result in censure and/or a fine to the reviewer and the internet host.
    I've started to review inks using a combination of the reviews of the two very best reviewers on FPN. I usually try to not give a personal opinion of what I think, whether I like it or I don't. Because no-one cares about that. I just write with it and say whether it seems wet or dry, smooth and lubricated, or not, shows through, bleeds through, is saturated or not, dries quickly or slowly, on different papers and what other ink colours are similar. These reviewers whose review types I have partially plagiarised have similar review styles. The surprising thing was that obviously the sad trolls didn't seem to be aware of that, so they hadn't read the review. Nor did they know I had reviewed a Montblanc ink and a Sailor ink immediately prior to the Diamine one. That's how they showed they were trolls.

    No brand that I've reviewed has ever had any control over my review or provided any copy or approval for my reviews. If they had I wouldn't do the review. Of course I get to keep the ink samples. They are used samples after all so no point in sending them back, No-one would want them.

    Here's a funny thing. Before I started doing any ink reviews, I bought some Lamy Nexx M pens with different nibs and caps. I bought all of the colours except the Olive Green - that I still don't have. Then I received some small samples of ink to review, in the bottom of Diamine 30ml plastic bottles, and found the Nexx pen nibs couldn't reach down as far as the ink level. If only I had bought Safaris or Al-stars!
    That has always been my perception. As little bias as is humanly possible no matter the ink. It is what I like about them. I figured samples was most likely. Especially for pre-production inks. That is what the final round of Blackstone was. Only in concentrated form. Mix with water. First round (Cashmere inks) started as a powder. 4 grams powder (foil packet) and add water. Add 80-90 ml get a dry ink ; add 30 ml get a wet ink, add 50-60 ml something in between...
    Couldn't really send back to Oz.....

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Brad "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling

    "None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

  10. #49
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Not a pen forum rule, it is some advertising watchdog and applies across the internet including vloggers and the like, anywhere that you see product reviews including newspapers. I would expect the watchdog has teeth and can bite with a fine to the reviewer/brand or the forum. No personal experience of this.

  11. #50
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    Sorry guys, but what evidence exactly is there that 'Bungle' was a troll?
    Past history and behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    One good reason is that the only "Bungle" I am aware of is the character in Rainbow who is the partner of Zippy and George.
    None of the above even comes close to being evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Yeah, the head of a major ink manufacturer has been reviewing inks online in at least two public forums for *years*, of course that is a perfectly reasonable extrapolation from a name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Bungle was not a new member but a new registration from the same troll. I already gave you this information and I did not tell you a lie. The site owner decided that fact, based on all of the evidence that he had in front of him. So if you have an argument about that I suggest you take it up with him rather than throwing wild accusations around.

    I'm not even going to dignify anything to do with the other wild accusation about Diamine with any other answers apart from the fact that the Diamine factory is in Liverpool. I didn't lie to you when I answered that before either.

    I can't believe you are actually seriously discussing this. Those trolls are sitting there at their little kiddies table laughing their socks off at you because they've wound you up.
    Still the failure to apply one's own standards in judgment of one's self continues; so, you think it's wrong for others to connect seemingly minor coincidences and similarities, yet happily do so yourselves?

    I know for a fact 'Bungle' was not a) Zippy reregistered under a new alias, or b) trolling you.

    One thing I will say, the reactions are telling.

  12. #51
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    None of the above even comes close to being evidence.
    Prove otherwise. I won't speak for others, but I'm satisfied with my assessment of the situation.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  13. #52
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    None of the above even comes close to being evidence.
    Prove otherwise. I won't speak for others, but I'm satisfied with my assessment of the situation.
    I read SIR's post "I know for a fact 'Bungle' was not a) Zippy reregistered under a new alias, or b) trolling you." as an admission that he signed in as a new ID called "Bungle" in order to ask if I was the owner or director of Diamine, and that he doesn't think it's trolling.
    Last edited by Chrissy; January 9th, 2018 at 03:20 PM.

  14. #53
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    SIR's reaction is indeed telling.

    I'm saying no more on this subject.
    Last edited by Chrissy; January 9th, 2018 at 03:22 PM.

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  16. #54
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    [QUOTE=SIR;229177]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    Sorry guys, but what evidence exactly is there that 'Bungle' was a troll?
    Past history and behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    One good reason is that the only "Bungle" I am aware of is the character in Rainbow who is the partner of Zippy and George.
    None of the above even comes close to being evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Yeah, the head of a major ink manufacturer has been reviewing inks online in at least two public forums for *years*, of course that is a perfectly reasonable extrapolation from a name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Bungle was not a new member but a new registration from the same troll. I already gave you this information and I did not tell you a lie. The site owner decided that fact, based on all of the evidence that he had in front of him. So if you have an argument about that I suggest you take it up with him rather than throwing wild accusations around.

    I'm not even going to dignify anything to do with the other wild accusation about Diamine with any other answers apart from the fact that the Diamine factory is in Liverpool. I didn't lie to you when I answered that before either.

    I can't believe you are actually seriously discussing this. Those trolls are sitting there at their little kiddies table laughing their socks off at you because they've wound you up.
    Still the failure to apply one's own standards in judgment of one's self continues; so, you think it's wrong for others to connect seemingly minor coincidences and similarities, yet happily do so yourselves?

    I know for a fact 'Bungle' was not a) Zippy reregistered under a new alias, or b) trolling you.

    Come on then, tell us how you know?

  17. #55
    Administrator eriquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Dilemma? What to do for the best?

    The decisions and actions regarding the two members in question were completely mine. If anyone feels entitled to an in-depth explanation regarding my decision making process, please contact me outside the forum.

    Please, let's just move along. Surely out time would be better spent talking about pens, inks, papers, etc.

    Eric

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