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Thread: What Would You Do?

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default What Would You Do?

    So, I've had a really bad experience with a seller who sells pens on FPN, on FPG, and presumably elsewhere. I'll describe the experience below, but I won't identify him. My question is, should I identify him so other buyers can beware? Or is that mean-spirited?

    Here's what happened:

    I bought a $375 MB 234 1/2 from a seller on FPN (he sells pens here, too). Before I bought the pen I asked him if the cork had been recently replaced and wanted to make sure the pen was in good working condition. He told me that it was all in working order.

    When I received the pen, it wrote horribly. It gushed ink, and even though it was an IB, I didn't think it should produce that much flow. I tried different inks and papers. I gave the pen a thorough try. But it was awful.

    I emailed the seller and told him something was wrong with the pen. I asked him what my options were--could I return it to him or would he pay for repairs if I had a restorer here in the states look at it? His response was rude and unhelpful. He said that I had the pen for 10 days and I should've contacted him immediately. He also said that IB nibs have a heavy flow. The pen was perfectly fine when he sent it (he claimed), and since I had the pen for 10 days he had no responsibility at all (also implying that I must've done something to damage the pen). I don't think 10 days is too long to try a pen (I was criticized by another seller when I contacted her after only one day of using a pen and she said I hadn't given it a good try!)

    I have since sent the pen to Gary Lehrer who emailed me yesterday and told me that not only was the nib misaligned, but the cork was not creating a proper vacuum and seal, thus producing the gushing flow. In other words, the seller sold me a pen that was not in working condition. I think $375 is a high price to pay for a pen that won't write. I've emailed the seller what Gary told me, but he has not responded, and I doubt he will. I think he ought to pay for my repair costs, at the least. But, of course, there is no arbitrator for such disputes, is there?

    I've already decided I'm done buying pens from anyone except reputable dealers, even if I have to pay a higher price.

    What would you do? Would you expose him? Would you leave it be?

    Susan
    Last edited by Susan3141; May 2nd, 2013 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Edited to remove seller's location.
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I would expect a partial refund for the cost of the cork repair. But that doesn't mean it'll happen.

    Those are pens I buy, and that is a premium price in my experience. For that price I'd expect a PERFECT pen.

    I bought a pen from a FPN fellow recently (144 50s model) that not only had a steel nib instead of gold, was seriously misaligned and the feed improperly set. I just had Joel fix it, didn't follow up as it didn't seem worth it, but I did NOT pay such a high price...

    Sorry it was such a pain, hope you adore the pen when you get it back though!
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    FPG Donor ♕ matveik's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    It's an unpleasant business, but I'm of the view that publicly naming the seller is something of a public service. Be and honest and fair in the process. Whether it helps you is hard to say. However, it may change their approach going forward and it may dissuade those from making expensive purchases. I think it helps the community in the long run.

    I think I'm in the minority on this though.

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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I know your seller, I think. I bought a much cheaper pen that arrived working, but not as perfectly as he had stated. Since the final tweaks are easy, I'm going to do them myself. I filed it under lessons learned. Also, my pen was sold at a very low price, so I think there's room in the price for a repair even if I have to pay for it. Sadly, sometimes when you pay a premium price you get what you pay for, and sometimes when you buy a bargain, you do as well.

    Generally, over many transactions, my experience has been that just because a seller sells on a board classifieds, or posts on a board, or has a good reputation on these boards, doesn't mean that he or she will turn out to be any more honest or straight-dealing than the random seller on eBay. I'm sorry to say I learned that the hard way.

    I wouldn't name him publicly, and I might even take out the identifying information you've already included. The mix-up in country is easy to do on FPN classifieds; I've seen it before, so I wouldn't assume it was on purpose. There is no excuse for treating you badly when you raised the pen's issues. Sadly I've seen that before, too, with other sellers. I'm sorry for the bad transaction.

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I think the seller should pay the cost of the repair. I don't know how you would compel him to, however.

    Sorry to hear about this problem, Suzy.

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    I know your seller, I think. I bought a much cheaper pen that arrived working, but not as perfectly as he had stated. Since the final tweaks are easy, I'm going to do them myself. I filed it under lessons learned. Also, my pen was sold at a very low price, so I think there's room in the price for a repair even if I have to pay for it. Sadly, sometimes when you pay a premium price you get what you pay for, and sometimes when you buy a bargain, you do as well.

    Generally, over many transactions, my experience has been that just because a seller sells on a board classifieds, or posts on a board, or has a good reputation on these boards, doesn't mean that he or she will turn out to be any more honest or straight-dealing than the random seller on eBay. I'm sorry to say I learned that the hard way.

    I wouldn't name him publicly, and I might even take out the identifying information you've already included. The mix-up in country is easy to do on FPN classifieds; I've seen it before, so I wouldn't assume it was on purpose. There is no excuse for treating you badly when you raised the pen's issues. Sadly I've seen that before, too, with other sellers. I'm sorry for the bad transaction.
    Thanks. I took out the location info.
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by ethernautrix View Post
    I think the seller should pay the cost of the repair. I don't know how you would compel him to, however.

    Sorry to hear about this problem, Suzy.
    Thanks. That's the thing. I don't have any leverage, except maybe identifying him. I may see if I can use my Visa's buyer protection, but this issue is so convoluted I'm not sure they would understand. "You paid WHAT for a fountain pen? People use those still? Well, you're an idiot!"
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Susan, or the rules of The Market Feedback forum you are required to name the other party which allows us to contact them and give them a chance to respond.

    I'm sorry to hear about your experience but your story does little to protect anyone else if we don't know who not to buy from or what the other side of the story is.

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Susan, or the rules of The Market Feedback forum you are required to name the other party which allows us to contact them and give them a chance to respond.

    I'm sorry to hear about your experience but your story does little to protect anyone else if we don't know who not to buy from or what the other side of the story is.
    All right, then. The seller is David1600.

    Susan
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    Senior Member mhguda's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I think Dan's point is valid, and if you name the seller to him so he can take action in order to protect possible future buyers, without at this point publicly naming him/her, you might reach some sort of solution. I think I know who you mean (from information that you posted earlier, on FPN!) and I made a note of the name of the person, with a note to self: to beware of this seller... especially since all the pens I've bought in the last year or so that weren't from professional shops on the net were from the FPN classifieds - I felt I could take the risk... so your ordeal has really been very educational for me. So far I've been lucky (I've also set myself a relatively low maximum for pen buys over the net, reserving those to buy locally) - your story brought home to me How lucky!
    So, thanks for sharing, and I hope Dan's proposal is a way forward that would help others as well. And maybe you can still get some kind of satisfaction.
    De pen is machtiger dan het zwaard - de pen wordt nog gebruikt, het zwaard hangt aan de muur...

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I thought so. I bought 2 vintage 88s from him, very low price, and yes, the piston seals weren't perfect, but I put up with it because it was good deal. I am sorry to hear your experience with him. I think he just needs to get his restoration process down better...but maybe there's more to that. Maybe he's not replacing the seals but just greasing them...
    Will
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    Junior Member maiboo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Maybe he needs to learn to be more honest about his description. If too many people "put up with it", he's going to keep doing this.

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    To his defense, english isn't his first language, so maybe he doesn't totally understand what he's saying?
    Will
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    Junior Member maiboo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Ahh that might explain it. English is my second language too and I still have problems with tenses even after living here awhile.

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Although there might be an issue with language, I think you will see that David knew what I was communicating from our very first exchange. Here is a summary of the exchanges between us via email with the dates. As you will see, the day I actually received the pen was April 18. I contacted David on April 24, which is actually 7 days after receiving the pen.


    Me: April 6: Is the cork seal new or is it the original (in other words, will I need to replace it soon?)

    David: April 6: the cork seal was replaced few years ago, when I acquired pen. Since then I used the pen few times, so I believe the cork seal might work properly for another few years.


    I picked up the pen from the Post Office on April 18.

    I wrote David on April 24, which is actually only 7 days after receiving the pen.


    Me: April 24: I bought a MB 234 1/2 from you and I've had it for about 1 and 1/2 weeks. Unfortunately, I think there is something wrong with the nib or the feed.

    When I first inked it, I noticed that it is a "gusher," meaning that it dumps out a lot of ink. I thought that it was just because the pen had been dipped in ink and filled and that the flow would moderate after the extra ink worked itself out of the feed. But that has not happened. I've tried it with several different inks. Currently, I have Pousierre de Lune in it, which, in my other pens, seems to be a rather dry ink. But in the 234 it comes out so thick that I have to wait a long time for the ink to dry.

    Looking at the underside of the nib, it looks to me like the feed is not correctly aligned with the nib, and I wonder if this is what is causing the problem.

    I have used the pen gently. I have used it only at home to journal and write, though I brought it to work with me today. But it is always carefully handled. It has not been dropped. I have not meddled with the nib in any way.

    What do I need to do and what are my options? I can send you photos of the feed and nib misalignment and the gushy writing, if you like.

    Since the pen is not working correctly, do I return it to you? Or, if I send it to someone here in the states, would you pay for any repair costs?

    Since I paid $375 for the pen, I expected it to be in perfect working order, but that does not seem to be the case.

    David: April 24: Please let me know what you would like me to do.
    The pen which you have bought is Montblanc with a flexy nib, most of the pens with flexible nibs are quite wet writers, for example - Watermans 52 no, so it doesn't matter which ink you use pen will draw rather wet and thick line, but from what I know it flexibillity of the pen was mentioned in description. Most vintage Montblanc pens which I have are truly wet writters and this is normal, I don't know nothing about the bad aligned, since I have cleaned and checked the the pen before shipment and everything was correct. The other thing is that you need to know, vintage feed usually have great ink flow, like X-mas feed Parker Duofold, where much ink flow and gusher were normal, this wasn't happening in next Parker construction, which hold the ink more securely and have better construction, but poorer ink flow. What bothers me is why you haven't informed me, if you thought about this as a problem in first few days the pen arrived to you?

    I don't want to insult you, but since you have used the pen almost 10 days and everything was correct and now you're writting that's sth bad happened with pen and you say it's might be my fault, it look at least odd.

    Truth to say I have no idea what to do. If you would written to me earlier there would be no problem and I would accept the return, but now? Don't think so that someone one forum would accept the return after so long time, I have seen 3-4 days return time bit not the 10 days.

    Me. April 24: The reason I waited is because I wanted to make certain I gave the pen a good try before writing to ask about the problems. I noticed the flow problem on day one. But I thought maybe it was the ink. The next time I had a chance, I changed out the ink and noticed the flow problem. I tried another ink, still the same. It's not true that I didn't notice a problem until day 10. But I didn't realize I should email you immediately if I thought there was a problem, because I wasn't sure if there was one. The way a pen writes cannot be determined until one uses it with different inks and papers.

    On one occasion, I wrote to a seller with concerns a day or two after receiving a pen and they accused me of not giving the pen a decent try. That's another reason why I decided to give the pen some time before writing to you. You can believe me or not. But I do resent the implication in your email that I am not telling the truth and that it is "odd" to wait this long.

    I don't feel like 10 days is that long of a time to work with a pen and to try it with different inks to see if there is a problem. If you have a limit, perhaps that should be included in your listings. I work full time, so, no I am not able to give a pen a good, thorough writing check in just a few days. You said that I am saying this is your fault. But, I suspect you think that I've done something to the pen and I'm trying to return it because I screwed it up. That is not the case, but you can draw your own conclusions as you seem to have done.

    David. April 24. I understand that you feel angry, but please tell me what you demand from me? I wrote to you is that you should only inform me that you feel, there's sth wrong with the pen, when you received it, that's all, you could have asked me if you had any doubts about ink flow. It would look different than message from you, which I received today demanding either return, either paying me for repair. You didn't asked me about writting samples or ink flow, which is quite rich when you combine flexible broad nib and sky slope feed. As I said earlier possibly only kind of repair which may change sth would be nib exchange for different one. Due to nib aligned, you are saying about sending me assesment for repair after using the pen for some time ?

    After this I realized he had no intention of doing anything about the issue and I sent the pen to Gary.
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Suzy, thanks for posting the email exchange so everyone could see it. I'm sorry you had this experience. I agree with what you said in your first post about only buying from reputable vendors, even though it costs more. I do that with expensive pens, too. And buying internationally always creates the wrinkle that returns or exchanges would be more expensive and take longer, just because of shipping. I think a lot of us have had the same hard lessons.

    I hope when the pen is fixed it will be everything you hoped.

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Ugh...I'm so sorry. I'm now wondering if I should still buy that 88 he listed...
    Will
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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Yeah my 144 was from David1600 as well. In my case I just chalked it up to old pen and the cost was reasonable (fr repair) and I just sent it for fixing up. But sounds like a pattern of many of us doing that...
    ---
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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    Susan, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your experience. I believe that David1600 could have done more to satisfy you because of the cost of the pen and assuring you it was in working order. It does make me want to think twice about buying vintage pens. FPN doesn't have a seller rating system, not that I think a rating system is a cure all. I've been really happy with all of my purchases on FPN network. I've been lucky.

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    Default Re: What Would You Do?

    I too have been lucky buying pens on FPN. I have had 1-2 unpleasant experiences but they were relatively minor. I appreciate the OPs willingness to post the name of the seller. Since I buy quite a few MBs and he sells quite a few you have just helped me avoid possible problems in the future.

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