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Thread: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

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    Senior Member Paddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    OK. Buy that one expensive pen you like, with a fine nib, say. Then forgo all the pleasure you would get from M nibs, Bs, BBs, and all the italics, cursive italics, stubs, musics, and flexible nibs. Buying cheaper pens may allow you to do everything instead of limiting yourself. Don't buy an expensive house and then not be able to afford furniture.
    Quality doesn't have to mean expensive. Don't know where you got that notion.

    P.s. Not sure I understand your analogy. Don't buy an expensive house and then not be able to afford furniture? Don't buy an expensive pen and then not be able to afford... ink??? Am I missing something?
    To really delve into this subject, we would have to agree on the definition of the word "quality". From what I read in this forum, quality usually equates to exotic materials and heavy metals. I don't see people equating quality with performance. You can take a dirty, beat-up, mutt of a pen and make it perform like a champ. I don't think anybody here would say the word "quality" around a pen like that.

    The house analogy was perhaps not the best. I meant that buying too much house can prevent you from enjoying many of the pleasures of owning a house: a bed instead of a mattress on the floor; chairs; a refrigerator; a stove, instead of a camp fire on the patio. Blowing the whole wad on a single pen or two keeps you from exploring many enjoyable writing methods. Too much house and too much pen limit you -- make you less free.
    "Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little." -Epicurus-

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quality, to me, is a combination of performance, material, and design. Some would add brand history and reputation. There are many pens that are "quality" but doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Lamy 2000 is one. Platinum 3776 is another.

    My point is that if I knew what I know now, I'd have spent the hundred some odd bucks and jumped straight to Lamy 2000 instead of wasting money on five cheap $20 pens before getting the Lamy 2000.

  3. #43
    Senior Member AzJon's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    To expand on this: DO buy cheap pens that you can explore different nib options. You never know what you'll like until you try. I started with BBs and stubs and turns out I'm not a huge fan (partly because I have the small, cramped handwriting of a psychopath). I did learn that I love medium nibs and there are nibs that can be too fine and, at the end of the day, I would happily use a soft-to-flexible nib for my day to day writing over any other nib type. I would not, however, have discovered that had I stuck to one pen. So, yes land on a nice pen, but I think you need to stumble through a few nib styes/pen sizes first to know what you really like/enjoy.
    Fair point but I don't think you have buy multiple cheap pens with various nib widths to find out your preference. First, every brand writes differently. Your preference of nib size for one brand may not be valid for another. Even the material may not behave the same way - a gold nib of one brand may be stiffer than a steel nib of another. In the end, the trial-and-error approach may not be effective way to find out your preference at all. You'd end up with a lots of cheap pens that you didn't like. Not good for your time, your wallet, or the environment.

    My point is that you can save a lot of time and money by minimizing trial-and-error through research. For example, many people have stated that Lamy nibs wrote wider than stated size. So when I got Lamy 2000, I got a fine instead of my usual medium. It worked out fine for me (pun intended).
    Definitely agree. I think, were I to start over from the beginning, I would get a mid-range priced pen from Fountain Pen Revolution and a selection of nibs in different sizes that I could swap out. Then I know a reasonable baseline. Their nibs are "German" so, I would have a decent idea of Bock, Jowo, and Schmidt, which are all more or less the same, I think.

    Still good to have an idea of what you want before dropping $100+, imo.

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    ...I culled the pens that “had their little ways” from my hoard and took them to our woods. I loaded each one into my muzzle-loading rifle and blew them into an embankment.
    I hope you were joking. I am not a tree hugger by any means but we pollute our environment so much as it is and what you claim you did sounds damn irresponsible. I also absolutely abhor mindless destruction when there is a chance of salvage, recycle, or reuse. I am not sure what your intent was with mentioning your age in your post but, contrary to conventional wisdom, old dogs can learn new tricks, you know.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    ...I culled the pens that “had their little ways” from my hoard and took them to our woods. I loaded each one into my muzzle-loading rifle and blew them into an embankment.
    I hope you were joking....
    I do too. Think of the ink stains the muzzle may have suffered!

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    Senior Member AzJon's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    ...I culled the pens that “had their little ways” from my hoard and took them to our woods. I loaded each one into my muzzle-loading rifle and blew them into an embankment.
    I hope you were joking....
    I do too. Think of the ink stains the muzzle may have suffered!
    Didn't Nathan Tardiff fire his pens out of a shotgun to prove their durability?

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    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Didn't Nathan Tardiff fire his pens out of a shotgun to prove their durability?
    Yes, but it was just the vegetal resin, I think. It is very tough. Unfortunately, that material seems quite permeable to water vapor, so it's hardly an ideal pen-making material.
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    ...I culled the pens that “had their little ways” from my hoard and took them to our woods. I loaded each one into my muzzle-loading rifle and blew them into an embankment.
    I hope you were joking....
    I do too. Think of the ink stains the muzzle may have suffered!
    That too! Shame, shame, shame.

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdgcolorado View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I wish I had known how much all of my pens, inks and papers were going to cost me over my lifetime. I might have decided on a less expensive hobby.
    This is my least expensive hobby! Compared to photography and cycling anyway. But I see your point--even though I haven't spent over $100 on a pen yet, I've spent 5 times that much in my first year at this. Not sure how that happened...
    Try automobiles. Collecting, going to races, shows and buying a nicer car than you need, because. I guess that pertains to most any hobbie in some form.
    We have met the enemy and he is us.
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
    ...I culled the pens that “had their little ways” from my hoard and took them to our woods. I loaded each one into my muzzle-loading rifle and blew them into an embankment.
    I hope you were joking. I am not a tree hugger by any means but we pollute our environment so much as it is and what you claim you did sounds damn irresponsible. I also absolutely abhor mindless destruction when there is a chance of salvage, recycle, or reuse. I am not sure what your intent was with mentioning your age in your post but, contrary to conventional wisdom, old dogs can learn new tricks, you know.
    No joke.
    And what, pray, would a responsible person do with things that were manufactured as junk from the start? Send them to a landfill? I wouldn't even give them away; to do so would be a swindle. I kept the worst one, though. It has some good features: the nib writes well when dipped; there is a clear ink window just behind the section. One feature I don't like: the manufacturer neglected to put a channel from the feed to the rear of the section. The pen cannot be filled. They sold the pen, took the money, and ran . . . and hopefully they went bankrupt. Nobody warned me about pens like this. And like the P21. And like old VacFills.

    Oh, and what do you suppose happens to celluloid pens in a rifle? Do they catch fire from the powder charge? Explode? Make plastic fouling in the barrel? Now I know something you collectors don't. Pure research demands a little pollution now and then.
    "Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little." -Epicurus-

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  13. #51
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Back in the 1970s I had a Parker 51 that was excellent, and a few Sheaffer desk pens bought for the office. Then I began to wonder if there were pens better than the Parker 51. I began to buy 51s at yard sales, as people got rid of unused pens they got as gifts. Still wondering, I read in a magazine that a lot of people thought the 51 was the best pen ever, but the article also sang the praises of Montblanc, especially the 149. I thought it was too big, but I bought a 146 by mail. Then my art supply dealer got a 144 in red for sale, and I bought that there. I liked these pens, but I didn't think they were better than my original 51. So, I decided to keep looking. That was my big mistake, because I have not found a pen better than the first Parker 51 or either of those two Montblancs bought in 1983. I have bought many pens since, but none are as good as the first 51 or the Montblanc 146 or 144. I have bought a couple of other MB 144s as they came up as great buys, and I have bought many Parker 51s for collectibles, but I had started at the top and gone downhill from there. I wish I had realized that and not bothered with the other stuff out of curiosity.

    I have also found that I don't like to write any more than necessary.

    Someone else said they wished they hadn't tried all kinds of nibs, more standard nib widths were what they prefer. I get that. After trying wide nibs, italics, obliques, and so on, I find I like extra fine or fine if it is a narrow line width fine. Nothing else at all. Some of the nibs can be amusing though, like a music nib.

    So, I have a lot of junk, but I use a Parker 51, a Montblanc 144 and occasionally some pen like an Extra fine Sheaffer Holiday (Christmas) pen. Around Christmas. I hate to write much. I have box after box of Christmas cards never sent.

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    Senior Member Sammyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    I think there is a confusion between affordable pens and CHEAP pens.
    A Lamy Safari is an affordable pen made from quality materials.
    A Jinhao 992 is a cheap pen made from cheap materials.

    I'm not saying every pen needs to cost Ą30,000 to be a good pen, but I AM SAYING that $1 shipped off ebay IS a cheap pen!
    You can either fill you pencil case with 12 $3 pens, all with a generic MF nib...
    or, you can buy a better pen (e.g. Lamy Safari) with a few extra nibs. The pen will last due to the quality of materials and allow you to try different nibs.

    I do not equate cheap only with price, it also includes quality in the equation. There are better ways to learn what you like without breaking the bank AND without dropping quality standards.

    The biggest point is that if you buy 10 $3 pens, that all crack, burp ink, develop flow problems, suddenly stop writing, etc... or one $25 pen that will just work, what do you think the users opinion of fountain pens over time will be by comparison?
    I suppose that is my point, most people need to make it out of the $1 pen thing to truly learn and appreciate what a fountain pen really can be.
    To me a fountain pen is not a disposable thing, it is something to be used for a lifetime or more.
    Last edited by Sammyo; February 11th, 2018 at 08:55 PM.
    Sam O

    "A fountain pen with a bad nib is like a Ferrari with a flat tyre..." - Brian Gray, Edison pens

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    I think there is a confusion between affordable pens and CHEAP pens.
    I agree, an important distinction. You can have pen that is relatively inexpensive, but still be of fine quality. A Lamy Safari/Vista has a beautiful minimalist design. It writes well, posts easily, and is convenient to carry. Because it has a CC filling system, it's extremely easy to service. Some expensive pens can develop problems that are very costly to fix. While I admit I do enjoy the luxury of a piston filler, it does have its drawbacks -- if and when it breaks, it's tricky to fix (and can be costly if you send out for service). And that's why service is also important. Referring again about LAMY, they have impeccable service. I've heard many times of people sending in a pen for an issue, only to have a new one sent as a replacement, with only a nominal cost and sometimes only to pay for shipping!

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Hm, I'm thinking yes, maybe I could live without the cheap pens I tried out. But then... there are high quality pens that I don't like, or I like the looks off but I just can't get on with nib-wise, or aren't really comfortable for me to use. So the cheap pens did serve a purpose.

    myu, I think knowing about the service priorities of different brands and the reputation of nibtweakers and pen shops is one of the things I should have put in my original post. I didn't really know about the reputation of some pen companies as 'couldn't care less' and others that really care about their product and customers.
    Lamy are wonders! (And the Lamy 2000 is actually quite easy to take apart for maintenance, one benefit of the excellent engineering).

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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    1. Never buy your grail pen. You will have nowhere to go.
    2. Dont buy pens with parts missing unless you have the parts

    3. Dont be cheap, never buy a pen, ink or paper only because of a low price and having the justification, 'I bought this and it only cost.....' I used to have a Porsche Boxster, I bought it because it was cheaper than a 911. I hated that car because it was cheaper than a 911.
    Last edited by Fermata; February 12th, 2018 at 11:41 AM.

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  22. #56
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    3. Dont be cheap, never buy a pen, ink or paper only because of a low price and having the justification, 'I bought this and it only cost.....' I used to have a Porsche Boxster, I bought it because it was cheaper than a 911. I hated that car because it was cheaper than a 911.
    Have to agree with that one.

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    Senior Member countrydirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    I wish I would have known that the supply of ink was not limited. Now I have so many inks that I may never use them all up. I think I've emptied 2 bottles completely since 2009 and I use fountain pens almost every day.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by countrydirt View Post
    ...I think I've emptied 2 bottles completely since 2009 and I use fountain pens almost every day.
    Help will be found here: https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...tter-every-day And try nibs other than EF.

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    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by myu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    I think there is a confusion between affordable pens and CHEAP pens.
    I agree, an important distinction. You can have pen that is relatively inexpensive, but still be of fine quality. A Lamy Safari/Vista has a beautiful minimalist design. It writes well, posts easily, and is convenient to carry. Because it has a CC filling system, it's extremely easy to service. Some expensive pens can develop problems that are very costly to fix. While I admit I do enjoy the luxury of a piston filler, it does have its drawbacks -- if and when it breaks, it's tricky to fix (and can be costly if you send out for service). And that's why service is also important. Referring again about LAMY, they have impeccable service. I've heard many times of people sending in a pen for an issue, only to have a new one sent as a replacement, with only a nominal cost and sometimes only to pay for shipping!
    "the luxury of a piston filler . . ." So, is the Reform 1745 a luxury pen? Maybe piston filling is a luxury, because the 1745 is a very decent pen. Some of this is hard to pin down.

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you wish you'd known when you started collecting?

    I wish I had more fully understood the ergonomic/experiential importance of nib adjustment earlier on--that the experience of a high-value 'comfortable' pen with a toothy, mediocre nib pales in comparison to that of a mediocre pen with a truly wonderful nib. Similarly I neglected exploring the diversity of nib sizes and the world of nib customization, seeing the pen itself--its perceived quality--as the most important factor in a purchase. I'm not sure I regret the winding path I've taken in this hobby, but I'm now of the mind that people interested in the writing aspect of FPs should explore nibs at least as much as they explore pens.
    Will
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